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 Replies: 48 / Views: 5,107 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
jdmern You must be a lot younger than I am - you are far too easy on amoral behavior.
Greed is not getting the highest possible price in an auction - greed might be concealing a find from the owner of the property to keep it for yourself. Greed is never acceptable because it usually done at anothers expense. Greed is usually defined as having an EXCESSIVE or unreasonable component based on selfishness. The intent od greed is the problem that makes it unethical.
Regarding examples 1 and 2 we seem to agree - it only become ethical once the nature of the customer becomes clear. At that point is when ethics should kick in. My problem is with people who continue to do business after the fraud becomes clear. Those sellers are then equally culpable in my view.
Your conclusion that we live in an immoral society is distressing. An amoral act is always un-ethical. Ethics and morals are essentially the same by definition.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Quote:
jdmern You must be a lot younger than I am - you are far too easy on amoral behavior. I'm sure I am, I was born in the 1980's, but I feel the whole generational thing is overblown... I strongly feel that those who do not realize corruption and greed are systemic in our society are far too idealistic. I think there are innumerable individuals who are pillars of morality, but the rewards systems is simply out of whack... ebay is a fantastic example of this. Either one of us could tomorrow set up a new ebay account, import a pile of chinese made counterfeits, crack out a few dozen big time details coins, set up some 'unsearched' rolls of wheats, maybe a scam 'roll' of Morgans or two, and pocket over 10k in a short period of time, with little realistic risk of prosecution, with a risk-reward ratio far less than attempting to, say, rob a bank. However, we (and 99.5% of other people in the same boat) do not do so. Why? Because of the ethics. I am condoning in any way, shape or form, but from a LOGIC perspective, you can easily see that the reward system is stacked in the favor of those who choose to game the system (again, we could go back to the idea of plausible deniability) Quote:
Your conclusion that we live in an immoral society is distressing. An amoral act is always un-ethical I don't think it would be fair to say that my conclusion was that we live in an IMMORAL society, I think a proper summation would be we live in a society which tolerates greed, corruption and fraud. However, I do not feel that is a new phenomenon. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1132 Posts |
I manage an IMAX theatre & get world coins for...wait for it. FREE
Why? Because the bank will not accept them & we have no choice but to toss them into a drawer (used to be the TRASH) until I expressed interest, which means that whoever sold said coins is pocketing the money paid per the exchange anyway (pro bono) because there's no way to reconcile foreign monies into the legitimate corporate account.
Although selling of the monies is most likely a violation of whatever businesses policy, because it's like taking expired products off the shelf & hawking them.
No harm, no foul (unless you're the hawker). I would never sell the coins I keep (especially out of said business) because I would lose my job. I keep them because it's a perk. I wouldn't be caught dead selling them out if the back of the theatre.
Edited by CopperCastle
12/28/2014 9:49 pm
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Valued Member
 Canada
270 Posts |
Wade:
Sorry for not clairfying...took them to a local coin shop, and was told they had no intrinsic value and were worth exchange.. didnt mention it just to save back story as my original post was pretty long as it is. Your right, regular exchange places and banks will not exchange foreign coinage. Too late to edit.
Edited by UncleLuc
12/28/2014 11:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
767 Posts |
Hey Uncleluc, you were asking about changing the thread title...
If you go back to your original post on the first page, to the right of your name, above your post there's a little pencil and paper icon. Click on that, and you can change the title yourself.
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Valued Member
Canada
270 Posts |
I thought I couldnt edit posts after so long? I must be super-new...im thinking of leaving the title..it draws people in, and then they will contribute to the debate because its on a pretty relatable topic. If the moderators havnt locked it by now I'm sure itll be fine...we are still sort of on the topic of getting world coins from tills I gueas haha....I dont mind tho this is an awesome thread!! Keep all opinions comming!! We can all learn something here as it revolves around a topic that is not about how rare our 2×2's look or how large our collection is...Its about personal feelings on basic moralities of our society...threads on fire and I feel its just getting started!!
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Valued Member
Canada
270 Posts |
Oh and SCOTTK, this may completely blow your mind but here goes...
I believe we put round coins into square flips because most flips are made to be placed into binders, and binders are in fact square or rectangular, it is much more space efficent and will generaly fit more snugly than a circular flip.
Pizzas are made in a circular shape because when the dough is made, it is tossed creating a natural roundness...the boxes however are SQUARE because...
when boxes are sent to pizza places they are sold in large stacks, unfolded...usually a starting cook will speed-fold these boxes almost to a science....if you may remember folding paper into cubes in early school, it would take an extremely complex and expensive box design to be folded up into circles...
hope that helps hahaha!! B.t.w...I know this as ive tried to put capsules into binders, doesn't work well..and as a kid I worked a pizza hut...folding the " B-G-zis" out of the said boxes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
767 Posts |
UncleLuc, you have unfortunately only exacerbated my problem. Now on top of the original predicament, I have to figure out why binder pages, and binders themselves are not circular.  Edited by scottk
12/29/2014 12:14 am
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Valued Member
Canada
270 Posts |
They would roll right off the shelf. Haha
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Books used to be rolled into scrolls.
It was tough turning the pages.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
767 Posts |
Yeah I would have to build my own curved or cupped shelves for circular binders.
Edited by scottk
12/30/2014 05:45 am
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Valued Member
Canada
270 Posts |
Ok guys I have a real-life ethics dilemma that I'm hoping you all will contribute an agument to. I am in the midst of closing a deal on a DDR commemerative. I purchased the coin for a very fair price which I cant yet mention as the deal is still on the table (it wasnt cheap).. and now I have an interested buyer that is inquiring to purchase...my issue is I have been researching this coin in great lengths to find a fair cataloged price. I have found an NGC documented price of $625-$850 (min. 3 grades lower than mine)... I have found ebay ads (very scarce) from between $200€-$1000€ I have received advice and price suggestions between silver melt value($5)-$1,500 How could I possibly handle this situation "ethically"? Because my main question throughout this debate was "what is ethics?" Who defines an ethical purcahse/sale/price/situation? And where exactly SHOULD I draw the line on this one? Some may say selling it for $850-$1500 would be "unethical" as there is reported sales for less than $300....but we have reputable companies saying its worth much more? Is the closer I get to the $1500 the further I'm straying from ethical principals? Id like to hear your opinions on this one. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
767 Posts |
Fror ethics, just make a statement handwritten even, stating tha any AND all prodits will be spli 50/50.
. That's ethical I my book.
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Valued Member
United States
272 Posts |
Unfornately I have been burned by coin dealers in the past. So I know where alot of you are coming from. I started coin collecting at 5 years old and my sale of a coin I got burned and it taught me that I need to do my own investigating and figure out what the sell price is and what the buy price is. For many years I had the idea that coin dealers were scam artists but now that I have talked to Susan and Bobby and couple other CCF members my perspective has changed over the years. If I could give any advice to coin dealers about being ethincal I'd say dont rip off kids, because in the end they are going to be the ones that carry on this hobby in the future
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Valued Member
Canada
270 Posts |
Absolutely agree...
The main point is that we all need to do our own investigation and due diligence in order to avoid these situations. Unfortunately greed weighs in on the majority of our sales and whenever you have greed, you will have unethical behaviour. It goes hand in hand. I grew up believing you can trust anyone behind a counter, later realizing thats not the case.
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Posted 12/28/2014 8:25 pm
