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 Replies: 30 / Views: 3,178 |
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
I will be at the Coin Expo in May... seeing it in hand, I could offer a better opinion. Also, Sandy Campbell (Proof Positive Coins) probably knows better than anyone how PCGS grades specimen strikes.
When it comes to pre-1967 specimen coins, the population reports are meaningless... eye appeal counts for everything. Again, if that was my coin, it would be in a protective PCGS Shield slab (which includes photos).
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
The piece in question is super nice. A solid 66 with excellent eye appeal as I remember it. So I guess it begs the question.....is an ICCS SP66 with great eye appeal the same as a Pcgs SP67 ? Probably. It really is a difference in philosophies as to how the TPG all grade. Had a great opportunity today to sit down with a couple of head graders of two different TPG s at the ANA in Portland OR. Both well respected individuals one from NGC and one from ANACS . I submitted some world and Canadian to both firms,since I have accounts with both. During the conversations with them,they stated that they were familiar with ICCS and how they grade coins. It was apparent that from what BOTH said , the main difference boils done to eye appeal and totally original surfaces rather than The ICCS approach of almost strictly technical grading. If you have a very pretty coin that is not technically let's say an MS64 ICCS , it could easily be an ANACS MS65 or an NGC65 due to the eye appeal. Another major difference ,according to both is ICCS unwillingness to use the entire Sheldon grading system,ie not using VF 25, VF 35 , AU 53 , and rarely using anything higher than 67. Another point made was that they both clearly stated nothing but respect for ICCS . Edited by Pacificoin
03/06/2015 9:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2187 Posts |
Quote:
I will be at the Coin Expo in May... seeing it in hand, I could offer a better opinion. i will be going around yelling SPP-OTTAWA!!... just kidding.. Quote:
is an ICCS SP66 with great eye appeal the same as a Pcgs SP67 ? Probably That's what I had in mind as well. But would it be nice to have it come back an SP67? it would as well... i'll be holding on to it until have other opinions in person, and until I figure out how to submit coins to PCGS  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
Easy to submit to Pcgs , join the Collectors society, or submit it through an authorized Pcgs dealer. When all is said and done isit really worth the sixty dollars Canadian to re certify a 250 dollar coin that will get you no more when you resell it. Just a thought. Submitting coins to US TPG services is Not cheap. For Canadian coin resale ability ,it is usual doubtful if the Pcgs, Ngc label will get you more than ICCS . |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2187 Posts |
Let's just say I wanted it slabbed rather than in this ICCS holder, could I just send it to CCCS? would they cross grade it and put it in a slab?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
Great looking coin. My advice to you would be to leave it in the ICCS holder. It's a Canadian coin and will hold it's value much better in the Canadian coin market in a ICCS holder than it would in a PCGS holder. Never mind it would probably cost you another $75 to send it to PCGS. Then if you ever want to sell the coin you would have to put back it in a ICCS holder to get the most value for your coin.
In the recent Landon sale everyone of those large cents were ICCS graded. Not a single coin was PCGS graded. That's because the Canadian coin market and collectors respect ICCS graded Canadian coins and they would get the most value for the coins. If this was true for PCGS graded Canadian coins you would have seen all the Landon sale in PCGS holders.
If it's because you would like a hard slab, send it to CCCS and ask Louis to put the ICCS cross grade on the slab.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
exactly what wireman09 said!!
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
In the recent Landon sale everyone of those large cents were ICCS graded. Not a single coin was PCGS graded. That's because the Canadian coin market and collectors respect ICCS graded Canadian coins and they would get the most value for the coins. If this was true for PCGS graded Canadian coins you would have seen all the Landon sale in PCGS holders. Don't kid yourself. Chuck Moore is a shrewd business man. He put the coins in ICCS holders, because it was dirt cheap (remember he is a US-based business, and the Canadian dollar meant about $6 per coin for him). ICCS also had no issues with a very short turn-around and putting the pedigree on the certificates. I doubt PCGS would have done that... I pretty much know who most of the MS-66 and MS-67 buyers were from that collection, and I also know that most of those coins will be headed to PCGS, for the registry set players. Two points:
- Why would Chuck pay for PCGS services, when he knows the hoard will bring lots out of the woodwork (or dealers representing clients), when he knows the collectors themselves would pay for it.
- Secondly, not all those large cents would have graded "Red" with PCGS. Chuck knew that, anyone who viewed the lots would know that... the best stuff sold for good money, because it was "red", but a lot was not...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
Hate to disagree SPP but that was one heck of a run of choice cents. We will never see a run like that anytime soon. Doesn't, matter what Pcgs calls them, until the market changes and ICCS is totally out of favour these will sell quite well in the current holders. Also it would not have mattered to Chuck where these were submitted , the cost for the certification is on the auction consignors one way or the other. Canadian coins in US TPG holders just do not sell that well in Canada for the right money. Years of experience support my opinion. It is my further opinion that PCGS especially has a real hard time properly grading world coins period.Some of the Canadian, British, and especially Australian that I have seen lately is very optimistically graded to say the least. |
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
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the cost for the certification is on the auction consignors one way or the other. Possibly for the Victoria North collection, but certainly not in this case for the Landon collection... (but don't ask me how I know that...  ) Quote:Canadian coins in US TPG holders just do not sell that well in Canada for the right money. If the eye appeal is there, a PCGS MS-65 Red will outperform an ICCS MS-65 red, hands down. Auctions results and years of experience supports my opinion, plus I recently shared beers with a few folks who dropped more than 6 figures in that auction - the coins they purchased, are heading to PCGS. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2187 Posts |
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If the eye appeal is there, a PCGS MS-65 Red will outperform an ICCS MS-65 red Now I know that an ICCS "red" designation is not what some people consider red, which I guess is why a PCGS red designation is more desired (please do correct me if I am wrong, as I am still learning). Going off a bit from the initial topic, how does ICCS consider a coin red? Is it still based on remaining luster (a percentage level defines the Br, RB or Rd designation)? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
What is red, red brown ,lustrous brown is purely a judgment call by the various services . Maybe they should start calling silver blast white, light toned , dark toned etc. All this grading stuff is pure madness and opinions only any ways. If we all just buy the coin and not the holder it would be much simpler.
All of us here know what a NICE coin looks like, what a third party cares to call it ultimately will not matter when you eventually, or your estate sells the stuff off. Truth is gorgeous pieces will always bring good money in a fair and open market.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
@SPP I spent pretty close to six figures at that sale as well and I am working like heck to sell it customers! I just wish I would have spent more. We are having little difficulty getting good money for the ICCS Landon and Victoria North stuff we bought. I think that the provenance will add future value down the road. IMHO sending it to PCGS would just be added cost and tie the stuff up for another 30 days with no real added value to our sales prices. We bought some PCGS graded stuff out of the sale as well , cause it was cheep! For fun I sent a few pieces in with my most recent ICCS submissions, will be interesting to see what cross grades and what does not. Have a good one, JN .
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
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IMHO sending it to PCGS would just be added cost and tie the stuff up for another 30 days with no real added value to our sales prices. You speak as a dealer... I was referring to collectors, that I was having beers with... The coins they bought, will be in PCGS holders soon, and will not see the auction block or open market for a very long time. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Replies: 30 / Views: 3,178 |
First Page
Posted 03/06/2015 9:41 pm
