Cleaned Coins

I forgot all about Mazarin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV

But I guess in French history the cardinals etc did their work in killing people they did not like or usurping their powers if they had any to usurp
I read some about the crusade that had as only objective to kill the last Albigensis at Mt Segur

There were two types of Albigenses: believers and Perfects. Believers were Albigenses who had not taken the initiation rite of being a Perfect. Perfects denounced all material possession.

Denouncing material possessions was tantamount to asking to be killed by a Pope ironically named Innocent the third

http://www.mystical-sites.stevenred.../cathar.html

I added the link to the castles

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Originally posted by crystalk64

Hey lim118 where is that coin for sale at? And what is the bid or buy price at this time. Cleaned or not it is a great looking ancient!

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Check it out .

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Originally posted by Parklane64

As a novice I find this discussion very interesting. It seems logical to me that if cleaning physically scars or marks the coin it should effect the grading. If cleaning only effects toning or coloration that, on the surface, would be a matter of value judgment. The other option would to be a separate grading on cleaning, perhaps? Someone enlighten me, please.

And what do you mean by whizzed? What is mechanical cleaning, a lapidary tumbler?

Thanks.

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You see, cleaning itself is a very contriversal one. I am going to be off topic a bit but here it is. Suppose you have done your bathing. You have two choices, one that is to dry yourself with a bathtowel or alternatively with a newspaper. Sure, most of you would choose a bathtowel. Why not a newspaper? Although it might dry you, I'm sure it's not comfortable, if not, it hurts! I'm sure even with a cheap toilet paper example, you will understand right away.

Back to the topic, you see, most people wouldn't bother to check out *how* they clean their coins. Even a supposely gentle wipe with a towel on a coin means applying newspaper to wipe yourself. It's just too hard!!!

You see, cleaning coins is different from cleaning other materials. Sure thing, you would argue that you can polish metal sheets etc, and why not coins - they are chunks of metal afterall. But remember, coins aren't flat and because they have various lines which defines their shape, even adding a small little mark will change their overall presentation.

It clearly is not fair to say that by mentioning the word cleaning would cause the coin value to drop very significally. It obviously differs by the method of cleaning and hence affect the grading. I mean, supposely you get a roll of UNC coins for an experiment. You let them sit in some "waste" compartment so that they get ugly. And depending on how you clean it, from using macro hair fiber cloth, eraser, metal polish etc to harsh metallic brush, they all should result to a different effect. I would be shocked if you dare to say that they all should be graded the same.

Fair enough, by mentioning cleaned on the slab, it would be up to the buyer to decide how much it is worth. But to declare cleaned coins are worthless is another thing.

Whizzed means that it uses a wire brush and to use something as a rotation device, such as an electric screwdriver and to serve it as a "polish". This is a way so that all scratches would be flattened out and in theory should reduce the look of overall "damage" but instead, this is a lot more difficult than thought to be because, like I mentioned earlier on, a coin is made up of several lines and to ruin any aspects of it will just show up eventually. :)

I am not too sure about the other two cleaning there so I will leave it to the others to answer them...

I have a second hand photoscanner whose purpose in life is to convert paper photos to digital photos
I does a fantastic job on coins
Added is a coin I cleaned 40 years ago with copperpolish ( right one)
and a non cleaned coin left one
I am sure most dealers would not see the difference any more
because I myself had to compare scans to be sure which one was cleaned
The cleaned ones allways will show darker scans

And another mechanically badly cleaned coin
Vendor is honest enough saying scratsches and marks

http://cgi.ebay.fr/10-DOLLAR-OR-ETA...cmdZViewItem

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Originally posted by ageka

And another mechanically badly cleaned coin
Vendor is honest enough saying scratsches and marks

http://cgi.ebay.fr/10-DOLLAR-OR-ETA...cmdZViewItem

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I totally agree with above statement. Not only was this coin whizzed, it was done terribly AND in at least 2 directions that I can see.

I have completed approx 50-60% of a complete, circulated Walker set. Some of the coins that I have tentatively identified as cleaned have what might (erroneously in my opinion) be called LUSTER but not a natural luster. It's more like the color of stainless steel instead of silver. Coins like this are often reflective, but not in a good way.

As to grading. I respectfully disagree with National Dealser. This kind of cleaning is not abrasive but it still lowers the eye appeal for that coin because it looks fake. A circulated coin should have dirt on it. Sometimes a coin with a fair amount of dirt has greater eye appeal because dirt tends to highlight the sillhouetts of the devices. I would subtract from a worn coin's grade that had that steely appearance (were I qualified to grade) because the coin's eye appeal is confusing.

Question 1: Do you understand what I'm talking about, and
Question 2: if a coin looks shiny and dirt free, but shows considerable wear, can I be pretty sure it's been cleaned?