Bolivian 8 Real, Possibly 1596-1605 Pb Mark?

I think it is genuine. Potosi Mint with presumed assayer Juan Ballesteros (1591 - 1606) using "B." This is the third period for using "B" and spans both Philip II and Philip III which would be apparent if the outer legends were present. Lacking those we can only guess. How the outer legends are separated also would tell better a specific type. This coin has five fleur-de-lis, does not have the small "B" and resembles but does not exactly match a Philip III coin, Menzel Po-98, Type XVc. The placement of the large letter "A" to the right of reverse, bottom and the style of castle portals all need to match to fit exactly.

We would love to see images of the hundred others! If you are looking for a great all-in-one book to start to ID early Spanish-American hammered coins and cobs try Cobs, Pieces of Eight and Treasure Coins by Sewall Menzel published by the American Numismatic Society (ANS) in 2004. It has nearly 3000 photographs and lists over 1200 types arranged by mint, monarch, denomination and assayer. The ANS website probably has ordering information if it is still in print.

Thanks everyone. I've got the rest of the cobs photographed (about 70 of them it turned out), I'll try and get time to organise the photos a bit get them online somewhere soon.

What a great collection! It will take a while to look them up. I think most are genuine and only have doubts about a couple but will need to ruminate on them for a while. The royal unfortunately is one of those that need extra authentication. I think we are looking at a numismatic value north of $5000 in pieces of eight. Thanks for sharing!

So here is what I found out. All of the coins came from the Potosi, Peru Mint (now in modern day Bolivia) under Phillip IV. They span the dividing year of 1652 when mint irregularities caused heads to roll and the new "pillar and waves" style (since 1652), was introduced to indicate that now these Peru coins are of proper fineness. Prior to 1652 the older shield style coins might be shy up to a third of the required silver fineness which was unacceptable. All the coins but one run in date between about 1645 and 1667. They all have a similar patina making me wonder if they came from the same land hoard back when. None appear to be sea salvage nor do they have much clipping, meaning they circulated not very long before being deposited in the bank of Mother Earth, and forgotten. The one outlier is a "royal" of Charles II of 1698, which has a cast counterfeit look, although all the design is right. A weight would help add evidence as to whether it is legitimate. If a hoard provenance could be determined they would gain in historic significance. Perhaps the flips they were pulled from tell more?

A quick inventory of the twenty new ones:

Coin 1- Philip IV, 1645, Mint P, Assayer R, square nail hole at 12:00, with no denomination / one date / one mint / half the assayer.

Coin 2 - Philip IV (Circa 1649-1650) Anchor style cross ends.

Coin 3 - Potential Royal Philip IV, 1698, P, F, holed, cast appearance to cross side especially, (fuzzy detail) with 2 denominations / 2.5 dates / 2 mints / 3 assayers.

Coin 4 - Philip IV 1654 P, E, Nice with 3 denominations / 2 dates / 3 mints / 3 assayers.

Coin 5 - Philip IV 166x, P, E, with 1 denomination / half a date / half a mint / 1 assayer.

Coin 6 - Cast counterfeit in the style of Philip IV P, T?, (circa 1629 - 1630s) but made later most likely.

Coin 7 - Philip IV 1667 P, E, with 1 denomination / 1.5 dates / 2 mints / 1 assayer.

Coin 8 - Philip IV, 1663 P, E, nice with no denomination / 2 dates / 3 mints / 2 assayers.

Coin 9 - Philip IV 1667, P, E, nice with 1.5 denominations / 2 dates / 3 mints / 3 assayers.

Coin 10 - Philip IV most likely of Potosi prior to 1652 (shield style)

Coin 11 - Philip IV 1667 P, E, with no denomination / 1.5 dates / 1 mint / 2 assayers.

Coin 12 - Philip IV 1665, P, E, with 1 denomination / 1 date / 2 mints / 3 assayers.

Coin 13 -Philip IV prior to 1652 (shield style) with partial date and 1 mint.

Coin 14 - Philip IV, 164x, P, T, holed with 1 denomination / 1 date / 1 mint / no assayers.

Coin 15 - Philip IV 166x (possibly 1662) P, E, with 1 denomination / half a date / 1.5 mints / 3 assayers.

Coin 16 - Philip IV P, B, prior to 1652 (shield style) with 1 mint / 1 assayer.

Coin 17 - Philip IV No date, P, T, with one denomination / 1 mint / 1 assayer.

Coin 18 - Philip IV, 166x, P, E, with 1 denomination / 1 date /3 mints / 2 assayers.

Coin 19 - Philip IV 165x, P, E, with 1 denomination / half a date / 1 mint / 2 assayers.

Coin 20 - Philip IV 1645, with 1 denomination / 1 date / half a mint / no assayer.

Thanks for showing use the eight reales! What else is in the hoard?

P.S. The nice ones should be valued in the $300 - $400 US dollar range. The average condition coins with dates go for about $250. Those missing the full date might bring $125 - $175. The counterfeits have value to specialist collectors making a "black cabinet" of fakes and might go for far less than, up to equal to, what an authentic coin should sell for, more so if it is known to be a contemporary counterfeit and not a modern fabrication. If the royal is confirmed authentic, it is rare, but the hole hurts its value much, It might go for double what a nice normal cob would bring, although wild internet bidding should two folks decide they have to have it, has been known to happen for rarities. None of the others have significant book value differences from common dates. Anybody collecting Potosi needs to have a short set of shield (before) and pillar & wave (after) varieties.

Congratulations! what a collection!
About number 3, 1698, it must be Carolus II because Fhilip V began his reign in 1700 (also we can see CAROLUS II on right side)

v.

Hey I've been trying to get back to you for a long while and now have an hour to ID all the rest of your cobs. The minors all come from Potosi and range in date from 'circa' 1574 to 1738. Starting with the four reales denomination in sequence, although they may not be started in order from the first coin pictured I started with:

FOUR REALES

Date King Denom Date Mint Assayer Comments

1)1682 Charles II, P V 1 1 2 2 Nice pillar side

2)1696 Charles II P VR 1 1 0.5 0.5 Unclipped

3)1577-1585 Philip II P B perhaps a cast counterfeit or from a fire

4) Ditto Philip II P - Holed

5) Ditto Philip II "P" B Perhaps a cast counterfeit or from a fire

6) 1736 Philip V P "E" 1 1.5 1 0 Crudely made

7) Early Philip IV style - - Clipped with unusually large castles

8) 1577 - 1583 Philip II P C Holed but nice detail

TWO REALES

9) 1696 Charles II P VR 1 2 1.5 0.5

10) 1659 Philip IV P "E" 0 1 1 0 Low grade

11) 1656 Philip IV P E 2 1 4 3 Nice with "PH" below crown

12) Odd possibly Lima rather than Potosi, 1572 - 1588, Philip II with P over II left of shield and o over D right with cross crosslet above, perhaps a cast copy or from a fire, Type 3412 in the book but I don't know how well I like the book's attribution

13) 1577 - 1585 Philip II P B 1 0 1 1 Count the 'lis'

14) 1665 Philip IV P E 0 2 1 1.5 Nice, unclipped

15) 1617 - 1634 Philip III/IV P T 0 0 1 1

16) 1577 - 1585 Philip II P B 0 0 1 1 three lis

17) ditto Philip II P R over ? 0 0 1 1 two lis

18) ditto Philip II P R 0 0 1 1 Large "R"

19) ditto Philip II P B 0 0 1 1 Nice full rims

20) ditto Philip II "P" - Clipped so little shows

ONE REAL

21) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P M 0 0 1 1

22) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P B/R 0 0 1 1 four lis

23) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P R 1 0 1 1 six lis, good rim

24) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P B little showing

25) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P - Cast appearance

26) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P R 1 0 1 1

27) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P B cast counterfeit

28) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P B one lis, holed

29) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P B 1 0 1 1

30) 1577 - 1581 Philip II P B 0 0 1 1 cast counterfeit

31) 1673 Charles II P E 1 1 3 1

32) 1684 Charles II P V 0 1 1 2 holed, fire damage

33) 1679 Charles II P C 0 1 0 1 porous surfaces

34) 1695 Charles II P R 1 1 1.5 1

35) 1699 Charles II "P" "F" 1 2 0 0 Holed

36) 1656 Philip IV P E 1 1.5 2.5 1

37) ? Philip II "P" - missing most information

38) 1738 Philip V P M 1 1.5 2 1

39) Philip II "P"- missing most information

40)1574-1577 Philip II Six-pointed star over P 0 0 1 1 The oldest coin and quite nice.

I hope this helps in sorting them out. I see a few early 18th century coins mixed in with a wonderful 17th century "hoard" from Potosi with most coins being genuine and having much wear. I understand these are the kind of coins one might have found on walkabout in South America not so long ago, with no obvious rarities, but en mass quite unlike any other grouping I have seen. Were there no "medios" or half reales? No copper?

Thanks for sharing them.

Hi pistareen, thanks again, great information! There are no halves or coppers in the mix, the rest of the coins are all newer types. I sit down and go through these ones now with your id's and see what else I can learn. Cheers!