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Neat Find - Possible 100+year Error?!

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 Posted 08/22/2015  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adamgharavi to your friends list
Also as requested, a photo of the back side:

Neat-Find---Possible-100+year-Error?!
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 Posted 08/22/2015  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list
Looks like a Grease Filled Die...
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 Posted 08/22/2015  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
I can see traces of what looks like a "5" after the 190.

There's no lack of large cent experts who follow this forum and maybe someone could clarify whether or not the last digit of the date on these early pennies was hand stamped. As I seem to recall the minting of coins with only the first three numbers of the date was a practical convenience because the same precast coins could be hand stamped and then released at any point during the same decade. If so it might seem that final digit either wasn't firmly affixed or at some point in time it got chiseled off.

Edit to add: look at your first pic, slanted sort of sideways, looks like an image of a missing "5". Excellent photo skill you have!
Edited by wildflowerAB
08/22/2015 3:26 pm
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 Posted 08/22/2015  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list
I think I see a 4.

From the top image.

Neat-Find---Possible-100+year-Error?!


Neat-Find---Possible-100+year-Error?!
Edited by SilverDon
08/22/2015 7:45 pm
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 Posted 08/22/2015  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgHoarder to your friends list
Great eye SilverDon, definitely looks like a 4. And adamgharavi! Good find!
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 Posted 08/22/2015  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
Indeed, must be time for an optometrist visit.I can still see an impression of a "5" as clear as day. The flat horizontal top line of the "5" lies about where the top of the vertical scratch ends, then the scratch cuts into the vertical bar of the "5", the curve of the bottom half of the "5" then swings out although the mid/lower portion is blurry because of something that looks like a gouge.

While we can never know for sure, please tell me I'm not just seeing things!

Regardless, what might have happened to the missing digit?
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 Posted 08/22/2015  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgHoarder to your friends list
I'm seeing the 5 now wildflowerAB. Very interesting.
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 Posted 08/22/2015  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
Oh thank you AgHoarder! Because that falls into my theory....the "5" looks to be too high up. If the last digit was indeed hand stamped, is it then possible for that reason the mint employee removed it (scratch/gouge) while the metal was still soft with the intention of correcting the placement? And obviously that did not occur?

This is a very fascinating coin!
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 Posted 08/23/2015  05:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list
The 5's were not hand-punched in as the final digit for that series. Many Edward cents were weakly struck to begin with, usually the reverse. If there is any kind of dish, ding or bend on the Obverse (portrait) side, it would cause a corresponding section on the reverse side to be convex, and wear away much faster than the rest .. it would be the highest point on the reverse.
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 Posted 08/23/2015  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
So if between 1900 and 1909 the forth digit was not hand stamped, then:
- if that digit was at a high point, it wore off.
- filled die, the 4th digit wasn't cast onto the coin from the onset.
- Post mint damage, the 4th digit was gouged or grinded off in some manner.

Anything else?

Still, it's an interesting and unusual coin, a great conversation piece for the price of $5 and one that you may never be able to truly unlock the mystery of.
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 Posted 08/23/2015  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list
I'm not sure what you mean by "hand-stamped". There were Victoria series cents that had the master punch (that strikes and makes the working dies) with only the first 3 digits. Each partially finished working die had the last digit then handpunched in. To fully complete the working die, it took 2-3 blows, sometimes 4) with the hammer and punch after alternate courses of annealing the die and hardening the punch.

A "filled die" doesn't mean that there is nothing there to strike the coin. It means that the incuse (inset) detail of the working die is partially full of dirt, wax, grime, meatl flakes or something else. Something would have been there and it could be weak or strong ... who knows, but the coin, when struck, had at least vestiges of the 4th digit there.

The coin is so heavily worn/used that it's hard to tell what happened. I still think that it's a ding that made the last digit protrude out on the reverse and it wore off. If you look at the Ed's right shoulder, you can see a heavy Obverse dish/dent there that would correspond to the last digit on the Reverse. Regardless, it's not worth the $5 paid. You could get an XF Edward for that price.
Edited by okiecoiner
08/23/2015 1:24 pm
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 Posted 08/23/2015  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list
quote: " Something would have been there and it could be weak or strong ... who knows, but the coin, when struck, had at least vestiges of the 4th digit there."

I agree with okiecoiner if it was a filled die there would some remnant of the digit. The 1903 below was from a filled die or partially filled. I guess another possibility would be a collapsed die.

Have you checked for a ding or damage on the obverse yet?

Neat-Find---Possible-100+year-Error?!
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 Posted 08/23/2015  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lambecolin to your friends list
Too much PMD around the numeral to draw a conclusion----so the decision must be PMD unless better forensics say otherwise. A very neat mystery.
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 Posted 08/23/2015  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by "hand-stamped". There were Victoria series cents that had the master punch (that strikes and makes the working dies) with only the first 3 digits. Each partially finished working die had the last digit then handpunched in. To fully complete the working die, it took 2-3 blows, sometimes 4) with the hammer and punch after alternate courses of annealing the die and hardening the punch.


Thanks for the clarification okiecoiner. My reference to hand-stamped is not the correct terminology - hand-punched is indeed what I was referring to.
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 Posted 08/25/2015  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adamgharavi to your friends list
Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of the replies, whether the coin is worth anything or not, it is still definitely an awesome find. Got me excited about coins again for a few days, speaking of which I have something else to post tomorrow when I am back from work!
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