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Wow, I Had To Have This One!

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First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 25 / Views: 3,258Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2015  12:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
If you are right Bob you have done me a service, no need to feel bad.

Other opinions welcome, is the coin good or bad?
Pillar of the Community
Netherlands
1204 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2015  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutchgulden to your friends list
To be honest: at first sight before reading your story, I had doubts about the authenticity. Fingers crossed!
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
Well I was given a refund, since I am a bit of a sceptic I couldn't bring myself to believe again in the coin. The dealer did give me a full and frank explanation though and examples of these faults on known coins. The holes do seem to appear on a few of this kind of coin, die breaks on others but in combination they just give me uneasy feelings.

In part of his extensive email he gave me the following information:
Arguments in favor of the coin:

1) it was bought from a reputable auction house (Jean Elsen, located in Brussel). But this is of course not a 100% valid argument since auction houses can make mistakes too.

2) As an attachment I send you some pictures of Arados drachms that depict the same features:

- in the file Arados 2.jpg you'll see a coin that has a distinct line across the field, which is the result of a die break. The lines on the coin in question might be the result of this too as I don't see anything suspicious on the edge of the coin.

- in the files Arados 3.jpg and Arados 4.jpg you see two coins that have similar small holes on raised areas as the coin in question. In the file Arados 3 you can see the holes on the letters on the reverse. In the file Arados 4 you can see the holes both on the letters on the reverse and on the dotted border on the obverse.



Arguments against the coin

1) the lines and holes you mention

2) a certain crude style

3) the feeling that something might not be right (result of 1 and 2)



All said and done, I personally do think it is a genuine coin (it is actually better in hand than the photo's show).

But since I can't be 100% sure and this coin clearly is subject to discussion for reasons I do understand, I propose to do the following in order to avoid any disappointment:

- I refund you your money

- I ship the coin to you for free. If indeed a genuine coin, which I think it is, you'll have a nice addition to your collection.

If it's not genuine, it will have cost you nothing.



P.S.: if I had already shipped the coin to you and you were having doubts about authenticity upon receiving it, you could of course have returned it for a full refund. I only want customers to be satisfied with their purchases, so that's not something I fuss about. Also, my policy in general is that my customers will always get a full refund if a coin turns out not to be authentic. Of course I try to avoid selling non authentic coins as that would ruin my reputation!
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
I am disappointed to not own it, if I believed in it then I think it would be a wonderful addition to my collection but I think after all is said and done my doubts would always take the joy out of the purchase.

Maybe I have some fakes in my collection, maybe I don't but I don't have any known fakes or suspicious coins. That's the way it is going to stay.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  07:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list
Good move, David. I commend the dealer for the professional response.

Hopefully one day soon you'll add a bee/stag to your collection, and you'll feel entirely confident about its authenticity.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  07:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
You had doubts so you did the right thing and brought them up to the dealers attention. He also did the right thing by taking the coin back. Glad it worked out, sorry you didn't get the coin, though better safe than sorry.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
I almost always hesitate to comment (on posts of silver !)

But I also had some immediate doubts.
In my mind it could be either a dud or deal ....... but the problem is I can't tell either way.
(although I learned toward nay)
So when in doubt ....... PUNT !
(unless we are talking about a measly 'ten spot')

I often withhold my comments when I see ancient silver here
I do not pretend to be knowledgeable about them and have my hands full already !

PS
I do exempt the later 'billon' coinage as to me 10% silver is really "impure" bronze
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
11/11/2015 09:15 am
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
Thanks, particularly to Bob, you probably helped me dodge a bullet.

I never react badly to honesty, if I ever post a dud I want to know about it.

Now for the matter of my Byzantines... 6 weeks and still not received them... I hate to say the seller is not acting as professionally as the one that this coin came from... the only responses I get are from support but the seller has not communicated well (with me or the postal services from what I can tell) Why can nothing in life be straight forwards?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list

I always thought ancient silver was extraordinarily beautiful. Which is why it usually scares me off.
I try and approach silver by very simply always assuming it to be fake.
It's up to the seller to charm me into believing that "true love" is the reason for me to take out my wallet.

Love at first sight can be hazardous to your health !
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2015  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
Despite giving me a refund the dealer sent me the coin to look at anyway. In hand the coin looks better than the photos in some respects but worse in others.

What I particularly don't like is marks like this near the edge of a coin (reminiscent of lines left in lost-wax casting process)

Wow,-I-Had-To-Have-This-One!

Is there any natural way for such lines to appear? None of my other silver Greeks have anything comparable.
Edited by DavidUK
11/18/2015 3:03 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2015  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list
I don't like the look of that edge, David. It's another worrisome feature of the coin.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
Me too, I sent a photo and an email. The dealer said "send it back and I will refund the postage cost...the coin is going in my black cabinet"

It just goes to show even from the best of sources we need to take the time to look and ask questions.
Pillar of the Community
Spain
629 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  07:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Athalbert to your friends list
Please, take a lot of images before sending the coin to the dealer...
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list
I had seen enough... I have sent it back now.

The dealers images are clear enough, with the coin in hand it looked better in some ways and worse in others. This photo of the line near the edge (that I spotted in the original photo but took the close up of) just reminded me of the marks I used to have to clean off from rings which had been cast when I was an apprentice jeweller.

I didn't take other images, and have just returned from the post office where I sent the coin back.

Had I seen your message I would have taken some more for you, but I think we can learn enough from what is in this thread now.

The sharpness of the lettering on struck originals cannot be imitated by a casting very easily. The limitations are that fine details like lettering is hard to clean up (possible with a dremel or dentist drill and soap stone bits, but time consuming) and silver will only cast into certain sized details (elements smaller than half a millimetre or so are difficult/impossible to cast)

There is no one thing though that says "this is definitely fake" it is just a balance of probability given numerous clues. An uneasy feeling that it isn't right.

It is a good enough copy that if Bob hadn't voiced concerns I might well have added it to my collection none the wiser.
Pillar of the Community
Spain
629 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Athalbert to your friends list
Thanks for the info...
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