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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,692 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
Might be worth calling PCGS and asking questions. Someone there might be willing to have a constructive discussion with you. Maybe they would accept a crossover from the ANACS slab, at no charge.
Looks like a beautiful error to me. It's especially nice when a major off-center includes date and attribute features, like the L on ribbon for this semi-key date. A great coin for any error collection!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Interesting discssion, great error!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
The only thing I can see on why pcgs wouldn't slab it is, why are there denticles on the obverse and not the reverse? That little detail would have kept me from buying it raw.
While PCGS may be wrong, I (and many others) trust them way more than ANACS. Obviously one is right and one is wrong, but who's who?
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Moderator
 United States
15493 Posts |
The OP original post made no sense to me ... was there a question or statement of intent in there along with the photographs?
That appears to have been settled ... concur that either PCGS or ANACS is wrong here.
My experience is that ANACS is a bit more ... uhhhhm . more generous slabbing error coins than PCGS.
Also a bit confused by the OP report that PCGS called this *98* ... which means 'damaged'. I see no damage?
Are you sure basebal21 it was not *86* which means 'No Decision'?
David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.artEdited by nickelsearcher
11/12/2015 7:30 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 13014 Posts |
Quote:
Might be worth calling PCGS and asking questions. Someone there might be willing to have a constructive discussion with you. Maybe they would accept a crossover Tried that several times over, their customer service manager couldn't care less. Quote:
PCGS may be wrong, I (and many others) trust them way more than ANACS. Obviously one is right and one is wrong, but who's who? By no means am I a fan of most of ANACS grading and I did use to be one the biggest defenders of PCGS and their quality work, however at the same time it's fairly well known ANACS is better with varieties and errors even if the actual grade itself is more questionable. It would be one thing if it was a difficult error but, a simple off strike should be very easily identifiable. They've actually graded a handful of these in the past as well. Seems to be a waste of money for that part of their service if they can't handle that. Quote:
Also a bit confused by the OP report that PCGS called this *98* ... which means 'damaged'. I see no damage? Yes it was the no decision one just mixed up the code numbers in my head when posting it. In terms of authenticity I firmly believe ANACS got that part right. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
Looking at some off struck errors on heritage there seems to be something off with the one you posted and the ones they sold. http://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1863...bnail-071515http://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1863...ption-071515 On the obverse of the heritage pictures the denticles seem to fan out toward the edge of the strike and on your picture it looks like the stay uniform around the edge. There are also denticles on the outside of the strike on the reverse and I don't see the same on the one you posted. There are a lot of fakes out their so I'm still at a loss. You have a potential $2000+ error on your hands that's a lot of motivation to make a fake. Did you ever weigh the coin before it was sent off to grading? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
Could be PCGS weighed it.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
I've never heard the argument before that error coins should have a consistent strike but that's a new angle for sure.
My pictures on this one weren't good. NGC will be its final resting place in time before it's sold.
What do the 1863 Indians you posted have to do with an 1864 L?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
Quote:
why are there denticles on the obverse and not the reverse Ah, that could be it! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
Quote:
I've never heard the argument before that error coins should have a consistent strike but that's a new angle for sure. All mint errors are created at the mint in a similar fashion. So in my opinion every error type should shows similar characteristics. If on genuine off struck errors the denticles start to flair out towards the end on the obverse, every other off struck error should show that. The same goes for the reverse the denticles are weak and on the outside of the strike. So his should be a good indicator of what a "true" error should look like. Again this is all my own personal beliefs, I could be completely wrong. Quote:
What do the 1863 Indians you posted have to do with an 1864 L? The date is not what I was trying to show. I was trying to show the characteristics of a genuine error. Being that you have a key date error that is potentially very valuable it would make financial sense to try and fake it. It would also be easier for a counterfeiter to make a key date "error" coin than a full strike coin. The error coin probably wouldn't be as scrutinized as a genuine example would be, and the flaws could be attributed to the "error" where they would jump out on a full struck example. This is just me being the devil's advocate so please don't take offense to anything I've posted. I've become slightly jaded with the amount of counterfeit items available lately. On top of the I read Numismatic Forgery by Charles M. Larson and in it he gives step by step details on how to make any counterfeit coin your heart desires with very little initial investment. I really hope the coin comes back from NGC as real, but from my experience if it gets body bagged by PCGS it gets body bagged by NGC. I have never tried submitting to ANACS so I can't speak for them. I do have a couple of really good altered coins in my black cabinet I should submit the to ANACS to see if they get a genuine grade. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
The definition of an error is that's it's not like the others though. Uniformity is the exact opposite of an error.
Again though getting back to diagnostics since every year is different an error or strike from one year is not relevant to another year. There's been a handful of these sold by heritage a decade ago but again as an error those aren't really relevant. You're really just looking for pick up points on the 64 L since you can't expect an off strike to strike the same.
As far as the services game they have different standards. Plenty of NGC details coins have moved to PCGS and vice versa and ANACS coins to both of them. People make a living moving those coins around if they pick the right ones. However, the one thing they have all been known to be tops at is authentication.
I'm not a fan of ANACS grading standards at all, but if you submit consistently to the services PCGS needs to rotate their grading room again
Edited by basebal21
11/14/2015 12:39 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Even if you have two coins of the same year and off-center the same amount, whether the collar is stuck all the way down or not, and/or how much give the collar has can change the appearance of the coin. Then there can also be differences in the strength of the strike. Any of those can have an effect on the appearance and strength of the denticals seen on the coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
621 Posts |
It's great to see you again basebal21. I think what I would do is go over to the pcgs us coin forum and make a respectful thread asking if anyone can understand why it didn't grade. Indian cent errors seem to be especially liked over there so the thread will probably draw attention and either someone will be able to explain why it wasn't graded or the mistake on pcgs part will be exposed and they might contact you to try to make it right or have you send it back in so they don't look bad. Either way you win. As long as you make sure not to go off on the thread. They will just delete it and ban you and be done with it. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Hey bud good to see you again. How have you been Justin.
I needed a bit of a cool down period on this one before I tired that. As you know ANACS isn't my favorite beside Authenticaticon but I doubt they'd authenticate anything fake
I'll send it to NGC soon as I have more faith in their error expert.
Edited by basebal21
11/16/2015 05:21 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2125 Posts |
Looks good to me. Full ribbon too looks XF-45 at least. Also, is there a RPD there too?
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,692 |
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Posted 11/12/2015 3:48 pm
