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2016 S$5 Canada MS-70 Maple Leafs

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list
John, that is a great question. Mostly, the RCM doesn't care what people have to say about it. They responded officially with, 'they are bullion coins and not meant for collecting. The rinsing agent does not affect the coin's purity'.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list
I will NEVER buy a slabbed bullion coin. period. BAD purchases happened to me when I did this AND I have read hundreds of stories where the end result was milk spots that got worse and the coins value was NILL with a slab.

Dont get me wrong, I love a slabbed coin but it is not worth the extra money for a slabbed bullion coin, period.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list
Yup, someone is buying them. I picked up a 2016 MS70 as well. There were 7 last week for sale, now there is only one left.

There is another seller who wants $429.99 for one. He has sold a few at that price as well.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
First buy what you like, but when you see that the RCM has not resolve the milk spot issue and you see slabbed versions going bad why take the risk. Also there seems to be very little PCGS graded 70 maple leafs leads me to believe NGC favors some large dealers even 7 units of ms 70 is a lot for any coin from one source but good luck.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list
I think this dealer gets them from MCM or Bullion Exchanges. Maybe NGC can work on a slab that is impervious to surface changes?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list
Here is the link to the top registry set for Canada Bullion coins, out of both PCGS or NGC. To my knowledge, this is the highest grade and most complete set of Maple Leafs. Even here, I see a handful of MS67s.

http://coins.www.collectors-society...SetID=154543
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list
@JGG

oh I totally believe you. Furthermore, if someone wants to buy slabbed bullion coins, I cannot fault them nor am I going to tell them how to enjoy their hobby, I completely respect everyone's interests.

I am just saying, from my personal experience, from other hobbyists before me, who have larger collections of slabbed bullion coins.... the lesson is, slabbed bullion coins develop milk spots in time if not soon after purchase and the value of the purchase goes right now the toilet.

i remember one hobbyist who had a blog and bought a complete set of MS 70 canadian wildlife coins, remember the ones with the wolf, bear, and other animals, and he had NO milk spots, later on he goes to look at his entire collection and BAM, milk spots on his MS70s which are no longer worth what he paid... and he blogged about that.

I mean if one wants slabbed coins, again for it. I certainly hope that no one has to experience that set back but its going to be hard to avoid. If someone really wants a slabbed bullion coin, I say get one with milk spots advertised so that one doesn't have a big outlay of cash.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list
It really is sad with this milk spot business. The RCM produces some nice bullion, the wildlife birds of prey series. However, the spots are a real turn off, its made me rethink whether or not to purchase. What's the use of a great design and low mintage, when milk spots ruins it. The mint is copping out and its too bad.

They need to start caring or their reputation is going to go down the drain. They seem to excel at taking a top product and then destroying it. Same with the numis coins, high mintage or over done themes. I'm struggling with finding a reason to buy RCM coins. The only plus is no exchange rate. 2016 is just not the same market as 2012, prices are down and so is spot. It seems more appropriate to wait.
Edited by pocket change 50
01/03/2016 4:17 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list
The RCM's official position on milk spots is that if you want perfect looking coins, you should be buying their "collectible" lines of coins rather than bullion. 1 oz bullion maples cost around $25/oz, while the collector issues can be anywhere from $80 to $200 for a one ounce coin.

The milk spots develop from inadequate rinsing of the blanks used to make the coins. Rinsing them sufficiently to prevent milkspots would be cost/time prohibitive on bullion maples. They are at maximum capacity already, they made approximately 32 million last year. This is comparable to all of the bullion US silver eagles made in 2015 at 47 million.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Totally disagree if the other major mints in the world can in the most of time create blemish free bullion coins why can not the RCM, just pride alone should drive them to prevent this issue. Arrogant passive to complaints leads to many large corporations going bankrupt, although this can not happen to RCM it has started layoffs.
Edited by john100
01/03/2016 3:28 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list
John is correct, take the time to do it right! Other mints Too me it is wasting a good design on a mediocre product. The RCM is always boasting how its the best. They should up hold that reputation, instead their bullion has a reputation world wide for milk spots. This is causing many collectors to stay away. I read on a number of bullion board and the spots are always raised, when talking about Canadian bullion. Lets face it the mint has gotten plain greedy.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list
The bullion coin - collector coin spectrum has piece as all points.

Currently, you can buy generic 1 oz silver rounds for around $22-23 CDN, 1 oz maples for around $24. These are the bullion end, mass produced in the tens of millions.

As you get into the semi-collectible, lower mintage coins such as Mexican Libertads, British Britannias, Chinese Pandas, Australian Kookaburras, you get a higher quality coin (generally no milk spots), but it will cost $26-40 per coin. These are produced more slowly and carefully, hence the extra premium over the intrinsic metal value. Even Pandas at 8 million produced per year cost upward of $30 each. 3 or more times the premium of silver maples.

Getting into the full on collector coins at $50+ per ounce, they will look pretty and rarely if ever get milk spots.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
The Sunshine mint creates the gold planchets for US mint probably most of the silver ones too rarely hear about milk issues. The RCM should send their rinse expert to do some fact finding tours and correct the simple problem or simply out source like the US mint. All the private bullion wafer or rounds producer with the lowest premiums do not have milk spot issues.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
814 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Solidifier to your friends list
I have US bullion coins with milk spots, it just seems to happen....but especially with RCM coins
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list
Wow never heard talk of US bullion with the dreaded spots, are they the eagles or something else. Usually the other countries are pretty smug about not being plagued with spots.
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