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 Replies: 32 / Views: 3,551 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Here are the pics from NGC's cert verification page.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
These images are not clear enough to form reasonable specific conclusions.
I'm not a fan of this coin or TPGs.
My question is, if a coin is removed from circulation early and properly stored in a cool dry dark place for many years, what would one expect it to look like? I don't think it's out of the question to find uncleaned coins with the look this coin (appears) to have.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
My question is, if a coin is removed from circulation early and properly stored in a cool dry dark place for many years, what would one expect it to look like? Unless stored in a vacuum it would having some color/toning. A 200 year old circulated silver piece would not be completely void of color. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
Quote:
A 200 year old circulated silver piece would not be completely void of color. Would the same be true of a 100 yr old coin? 125? 150? Isn't environment a more pertinent factor than age? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
604 Posts |
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Isn't environment a more pertinent factor than age? If I'm understanding you correctly then I think you fail to recognize that this coin has been circulated therefore it has been through many hands. With that being said silver will tone from being handled and I highly doubt everyone who touched it was wearing protective gloves to keep this coin from toning. Even if the coin was removed from circulation before the toning began it would most certainly tone as time passed regardless of how it was stored. The age of the coin has little to do with the condition it is in where as how the coin was treated does. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7375 Posts |
Maybe the cleaning was done well enough to stump NGC, so their only option was to net grade it to VF30.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
Would the same be true of a 100 yr old coin? 125? 150? Isn't environment a more pertinent factor than age? Yes, a circulated 100 year old silver coin will have some color, toning or "dirt" if you will. Environment is important too and because silver is a reactive metal, and the air around us is made up of numerous chemical gases, a silver coin will tarnish over time unless stored in a vacuum. |
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Valued Member
United States
383 Posts |
That's the problem with "market acceptability". Putting otherwise problem coins in problem-free holders, and compensating their logic with a lower grade.
ET
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
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Maybe the cleaning was done well enough to stump NGC, so their only option was to net grade it to VF30. No offense, but huh? Quote:
Would the same be true of a 100 yr old coin? 125? 150? Isn't environment a more pertinent factor than age? Technically yes, but how many airtight storage methods were available 100 years ago. Morgan dollars were put into bags, and the outside air was blocked by the coins touching the bag. Those got toned, while everything else stayed unreacted. What I am getting at is that coin collectors/accumulators 100+ years ago were not as environment-conscious as they are today. So the vast majority of coins that age would be toned to some degree. Edited by TypeCoin971793
04/15/2016 7:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
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No offense, but huh? If NGC couldn't technically see or detect any cleaning by any of their methods they typically use, they would have to come up with some explanation. So since the coin is obviously a cleaned problem coin, and since they don't have any tangible evidence of such, they downgraded it to VF30. That's what I meant by 'stumped.' |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I submit for your consideration the following coin:     First set of pictures from dealer. Second set from my own camera. The slab this coin resides in:  So tell me -- is this a lightly circulated AU Bust that has been dipped at some point? I think so, and I'm pretty sure everyone else does. That did not stop PCGS from grading it XF40 full. But it's clearly lustrous in some areas, and has AU or better details. My opinion is that PCGS downgraded the coin to a 40 to make it "market acceptable" because they did not consider the cleaning severe enough to warrant a Details designation. The coin actually looks decent enough in hand, although it's unnaturally bright, of course, and very obviously not original. This 1824 is what they usually look like after decent circulation, as far as color:   Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
If NGC couldn't technically see or detect any cleaning by any of their methods they typically use, they would have to come up with some explanation. So since the coin is obviously a cleaned problem coin, and since they don't have any tangible evidence of such, they downgraded it to VF30. That's what I meant by 'stumped.' Okay. That makes more sense. Maybe they are just more lenient with dipping, especially with earlier coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Yes, looks like that's the case, including the coin paralyse just added. Not sure that 2 coins is a trend, but it just might be.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
Quote:Quote:
Or was it the cleaning that gave it luster? Cleaning NEVER creates original mint luster; it only destroys it Sorry, bad word choice. I meant to say "Was it the cleaning that gave it an APPEARANCE of luster while held at an angle?". |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1584 Posts |
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You are certainly entitled to you incorrect opinion.
Was this directed at me? I'll hold my tongue except to say many postulations in this thread lack evidence or logic to support your very rigid stand. Quote:
Bust collectors know they are looking at coins almost 200 years old and value original surface and original circulation wear far more than "shiny" I would not presume to speak all bust collectors. As a bust collector, I value original coins as much as the next guy.  Edited by noD
04/17/2016 09:46 am
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Posted 04/15/2016 10:19 am
