Interesting Dispute With Auction House

C77, I'm a bit unclear on what transpired.




I'm assuming that the drive to L.A. was to a Heritage location, to return the coin. Is that correct? And the fee was what? Some sort of restocking/return fee that they had made no prior mention of?

This all concerns the Theodosius I solidus that you posted about before, right? I assume you still had some misgivings despite the two Sear-trained fellows' certification that you mentioned. You had sounded relieved in the post where you reported their endorsement.

Like all of us, I've had my share of irritation with businesses that broke promises. And I can understand getting PO'ed if you are being charged a fee that wasn't explained up front. You're correct that they should be accountable for that fee. And if Bierrenbach was a ___, then his bosses should be made aware of the fact.

Having said all that, do you think that a cool-headed, concise letter that states the facts, expresses your great disappointment in a company you have regularly purchased from and trusted - and, I would add, promoted to numerous collectors when proudly showing off your purchases online - would garner more productive results (i.e. reimbursement) than a clearly (and justifiably) angry letter? You could state that, after giving shout-outs to HA over the years via the forums, that you'd hate to have anything negative to report to the online community. (The threat there is clear, but it's delivered coolly) I would underscore that you'd greatly prefer to be able to report - to the many folks who follow your posts - a satisfactory resolution that reinforces continuing confidence in HA's customer service.

It's a different tack, I realize, and requires a bit of swallowing of one's pride - with no guarantee of better results, I realize. Just a thought.

P.S. I just reread your post above...perhaps you already sent the email to HA? Or are you running it by us here for opinions first, before hitting the "send" button?

Ah, I hadn't realized it had already been sent. Glad to hear you received the apology, although of course it may well have been offered more in response to your threat to make this public than for any sincere regret.

I hope I'm not misunderstanding, but was this unpleasant ordeal all over NGC stabbing charges?

I can't imagine that you were unaware that they charged a fee for their service. Or perhaps you thought Heritage should pay that fee.

In any event I only spend in the low 5 figures per year with them but I've never received anything but first class service, even when I had to return a coin.

They've even shipped my orders before I paid on two occasions when I was gone on vacation and without any kind of wire service.

I really am sorry to hear of your troubles with them. For me, I rely on them quite heavily to find what I'm looking for, since I'm often looking for rather tough coins.

I think the Turkey Sandwich with Tomatoes is a good analogy except you wouldn't have actually gotten the tomatoes. You could ask about tomatoes, and be assured that you would tomatoes, but you would not get them and you would have to pay for them.

It's shameful that NGC charges $46 for a plastic case and no guarantee of authenticity.

@ceasar77
I am sorry that you had these difficulties. I completely understand your intent to never deal with these people again. I admit to having looked at their auctions and thought about bidding. However, the fact that 99% of their coins are in slabs turns me off. I have only bought 2 coins in slabs because I wanted the coin. The slabs had a brief but decisive meeting with my hammer. I just do not understand the slabbing of ancients.

Thanks to your post I will choose to take my money elsewhere. I was reluctant to buy from them before, but I am now set against it. There are plenty of coins and coin dealers out there so I refuse to deal with those who treat their customers this way.

Thanks for spreading this story around.

Without seeing the original listing and hearing both sides of the tale, I cannot take a side one way or the other. I'm not for or against anyone based on the information contained in this post.

One must understand that, when you go into someone else's house to play, you must play by their rules. Sometimes, those rules are very unfair. When you go into any auction house there are three sets of rules:

1. Allowed to register to bid.
2. Bidding rules.
3. Post winning bid rules.

A person should be aware of all the rules in advance and they should be followed at all times by all sides.

In this case, what matters is what was listed in writing for the auction. To tell you the truth, the $46 fee does not bother me for a coin over $1000. What bothers me, from what you wrote, is that they were not willing to let you authenticate the coin your way. I don't understand that. I don't know why they would have a problem with that. That strikes me as weird.

Thank you for your comment caesar77. It clarified a lot of things for me. This is a case of misunderstandings. They should have given you a price beforehand. I agree. You could have decided at that point what other options you had.




This is the more major misunderstanding. You were dropping off the coin for NGC to review it. They not only reviewed the coin, but graded it, and slabbed it. That is what NGC does. You probably should have told them that you just wanted it authenticated, but not slabbed. Based upon what you have stated, I don't find either party to really be at fault.

Where Heritage, or more specifically Cristiano Bierrenbach, erred was his response to you about the fee. You being a regular buyer, he should have been much nicer and civil with you. I truly believe his attitude ticked you off and you had every right to feel that way. You are a regular customer. You are not some game player. I can tell from your posts that you are a serious and straightforward person.

Reading your comments, I think you should have trusted your instincts. You should have gotten the coin to David Sear and let him authenticate it for you. His opinion would have had the most credibility with you and would have put your mind at ease one way or the other.

Do I think you should do business with them in the future? I would not. If I have spent thousands of dollars with someone over multiple transactions, I would expect to be treated better.

I have never purchased an item from the 'group' in question. Although I know several people who do and swear by them.
From my perspective that becomes part of the problem !
Finding that special coin that makes us open our wallet is always so much easier when it comes from a "reliable" source. A source that people we know have many good things to say about.
As mentioned elsewhere very many (most ?) of the coins they sell are 'slabbed' by NGC (itself an outfit of some reknown !) so it makes almost everyone comfortable ........ doesn't it ?

As I see it
The reasoning itself becomes circular. The people at NGC receive the coin from a 'reliable' source (Heritage) with whom they (probably) do much business with both professionally and personally. Their inclination is to believe (or want to believe) that the source being legit the coin must be also. The coin comes back slabbed (and graded) so the auction house believes that since NGC graded it that it must be genuine.
Everyone is laying in the same bed so it must be love !

I have several pieces that for several years I have wanted to send off to Mssr Sear.
(thinking about my possibly unique Caligula As and my Trajan dupondius overstrike)
I need to get moving really as the 'old boy' isn't going to live forever (neither am I for that matter). But I intend on submitting with only a minimal amount of information included. If he asks for additional 'facts' I will provide of course ! After I get some information in my direction !

Whether I found the coin on the floor of the supermarket or bought it at a local flea market bears little on whether the coin is genuine !
Nor should the final judgement be based on circumstantial evidence.


Recently someone posted this pic on Facebook
Itself a cesspool of fake ancients
Can you tell which one is real ?
From the photograph alone certainly I can't.




Edit
I would add that several years ago (when this was a much smaller and intimate forum) a member posted a coin he had personally unearthed (UK I recall) that he believed he had found under completely legitimate circumstances. It was the near unanimous opinion of the members that the coin was a fake ! Someone at some point in the not too distant past had 'salted' the area.
Stranger than fiction