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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
These are the seller's photos.  I just cropped them and removed the background so that there aren't any distractions from the coin. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
02/11/2017 12:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
ok. based on the pics I'll throw out ms64.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Also please don't leave us hanging. Please update soon with the grade. This one's going to drive me nuts.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36844 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
Sorry guys, but that is not a Mint State Capped Bust Half Dime. The surfaces are abraded probably from a cleaning with some mild abrasive, like baking soda. The best technical grade it could get is AU-58. The market grade might be MS-61. Here is a Mint State example of this type.   |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Thanks. Worried that it wasn't unc. Quote:
Also please don't leave us hanging. Please update soon with the grade. This one's going to drive me nuts Can't update with the grade as this is a raw coin. We'll have to go with the judgment of the folks here and what you see personally. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18696 Posts |
my first thought on this one was AU58 and a cleaning some type of abrasive as Bill suggests
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2125 Posts |
First thought was AU-55. Not a bad looking coin!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I can see 58 on this. Thanks for the discussion as usual, billjones.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Quote:Sorry guys, but that is not a Mint State Capped Bust Half Dime. The surfaces are abraded probably from a cleaning with some mild abrasive, like baking soda. The best technical grade it could get is AU-58. The market grade might be MS-61. Thanks Bill. I am a little confused because my understanding was that even if a coin was cleaned with an agent that stripped off a thin layer of metal, it could still be UNC details. If so, cleaning that alters the surfaces would not preclude an UNC grade. My understanding was that for a coin to not technically be able to attain an UNC grade, it had to have wear from circulation. It doesn't appear from your comments that you saw wear on the coin. Agree it can't have a straight UNC grade, but there is always that pesky market acceptable cleaning that is highly subjective. Your thoughts on this would, as always, be appreciated. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
02/11/2017 8:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
"Mint State" means that you have enough of the mint surface to not break the mint luster swirl. A coin can have mint sharpness and not be Mint State if the mint luster is broken. It can be weak but if it's not broken, it's Mint State. The low Mint State grades are reserved for those pieces as well as the marked up pieces. What is mint luster? Twirl a Mint State Morgan dollar under a light and note the cartwheel luster. When you get so you can spot that, you are well under way to becoming a competent grader. Edited by billjones
02/12/2017 09:32 am
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Mr. Bill Jones, always thankful that you are a member of this site and willing to share your wealth of knowledge. I think I'm going through a grumpy or snobby picture phase. I can't tell anything from the photos provided in this post and I'm amazed that so many of you can. Again the photo looks altered. For me at this stage it's just a guessing game.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Thanks for having patience with me Bill as I try to learn, but I am still confused. According to the Sheldon scale for coin grading used by the ANA, an AU58 coin will have almost full original mint luster. An AU50 coin will have 50% original mint luster. If we go with this definition or guideline, then the presence of mint luster is not a determinant of a mint state coin. Mint State coins can have significantly impaired mint luster. According to the guidelines I have read, the determinant of a mint state coin is wear, or the absence of it. Quote:
"Mint State" means that you have enough of the mint surface to not break the mint luster swirl. A coin can have mint sharpness and not be Mint State if the mint luster is broken. It can weak but if it's not broken, it's Mint State. The low Mint State grades are reserved for those pieces as well as the marked up pieces. Sheldon grading guidelines:   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
02/11/2017 11:14 pm
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
I have zero experience grading older coins such as the example, but...the first thing that catches my eye is the crud within the digits/letters. This always seems to mean this coin was cleaned. Then I try to notice surfaces, the indication of harsh/caustic cleaning. This coin has both the crud and a surface "problem" for lack of better word. That right there would knock it out of a MS grade down considerably. I've seen better auctioned AU55's, kinda confused |
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Posted 02/11/2017 12:53 am
