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Pillar of the Community
United States
2125 Posts |
I was thinking VF-35. Has a nice look.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5684 Posts |
At least VF-35 sharpness, very close to XF-40. Very attractive.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11904 Posts |
Got this one today   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I bought mine as a VF-25 a few years ago from amida17. Yours is not much better. These Barber halves are really becoming grade-flated.   |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
I think there are important differences in the 2 coins. The eagle's wings in the 1912 do not show full separation, especially in the right wing. The shield shows unsightly staining. There are scratches in the tail feathers. The feather details in the wings contribute most to drop this coin into the lower VF category.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
You also neglect to point out that the obverse of mine is far superior to yours. Look at the hair detail, the coronet, and the eye. The obverse is usually weighed more heavily than the reverse. I would say the obverse of mine is a solid VF-35, with the reverse a solid VF-30, using today's standards. By the same standards, the obverse of yours is VF-30 while the reverse is VF-35. What I'm trying to say is that there is practically no difference in technical grade between our coins.
I paid $50, which was F money at the time. The details were graded VF-25 by the forum.
Pointing out the scratches and "staining" is moot. They don't do anything to the technical (details) grade.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
In case you disagree:  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
Grading has two components. The technical grade and eye appeal. Both contribute to the final grade.
Not really buying the argument that the obverse of your coin is far superior to the one submitted here. Look at the last leaf at the bottom of the laurel wreath. In the 12 it blends into the cap. In the 08 it is crisply defined. I agree the obverses are similar in technical grade. The reverse is where the 12 drops way down due to the worn down plumage of the eagle.
You have a beautiful coin btw.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/06/2017 11:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I am talking only about the TECHNICAL GRADE. I am VERY well aware that there is more to a grade than just the amount of wear present. Actually, the grade stays the same; it is the value that changes. TPGs like altering the grade a little to reflect the value change, which I find incredibly stupid and confusing on their part. I am a very technical person, and I believe that a coin with a VF-25 amount of wear and no problems should always be a VF-25, regardless of eye appeal. The market will adjust the value of the coin in question above or below VF-25 value as it sees fit. I will sell an ugly VF-25 for less than a beautiful VF-25, but it does not make it something other than a VF-25. I guess we will agree to disagree about the grades on our coins. The leaves on your coin are just about as weak as those on my coin (that lowest leaf is the only one that shows a minute discernable difference, even though the aforementioned details are still sharper on my coin, and it is also a point for strike weakness, see below). And you say the slightly greater amount of wear on the eagle's feathers brings it "way down," even though you are only talking about a 5-point difference. Compare the lowest leaf. The coins are about the same grade (1912 is graded higher) and taken with the same photography equipment.   My point is that, as little as three years ago, your coin would have been scoffed at in a holder with anything higher than VF-25 (maybe 30) on the label. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I will admit that eye appeal has a large impact in grades above MS-63 (especially MS-65 and above). Those grades are extremely difficult to guage based on technical merit alone. Quote:
You have a beautiful coin btw. Thank you Edited by TypeCoin971793
05/07/2017 12:35 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
You are welcome.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7516 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
 In the spirit of beating a dead horse (  ) for which there appears to be an icon, I received some coins back from a TPG submission so updating some old threads. Thanks for all your help!   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,254 |
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Posted 04/30/2017 2:48 pm
