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Rainbow Toning Question

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Canada
7 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2017  06:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyharkin to your friends list
Thanks for the responses everyone! I suppose I'll shelve some stuff for awhile and see what happens.
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 Posted 10/29/2017  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list
The best toning I ever got on a coin was when I placed (dont ask me why) a couple unprotected silver coins near the cats litter box. I sure wish I remembered what type of litter we used because the side facing up turned out beautiful! It took a couple years for them to get that way but once I saw what was happening I left them there a little longer to see how they turned out.
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 Posted 10/29/2017  02:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
A mixture of urea ans sulfur in the air surrounding the litter box.

My nose knows.
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 Posted 10/29/2017  03:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list
Here is how artificially can be done:

VrA7Jyw1uOs


*** Edited by Staff to add YouTube tags. [youtube][/youtube] Please use them in the future. We prefer embedded video. ***
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 Posted 10/29/2017  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list
Very interesting video. Reminds me of chemistry lab ages ago.
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 Posted 10/29/2017  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
Coins tone by all sorts of mechanisms. The 1970S Lincoln proofs toned in their mint packaging.


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 Posted 11/12/2017  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add howell1018 to your friends list
I've recently begun collecting Morgan dollars again. I'm particularly partial to what I deem to be nicely toned dollars. I'm wondering if anyone has noticed that certain dates seem to be more available toned? Also, why are Morgan dollars more inclined to be toned than other series and denomination? I suspect that more common dates have had the process "speeded up" to make them more salable. I also suspect that Morgans have more toned specimens amongst it's population than others simply because they're more popular. I buy only slabbed coins from PCGS and NGC as a hedge against buying "recently toned" dollars, but I suspect they can be fooled as well. Then again I guess it could be debated as to what constitutes artificial toning versus natural toning as all toning indicates the introduction of a chemical agent and the difference is solely intent and how do you prove/disprove that?
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 Posted 11/12/2017  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
I've recently begun collecting Morgan dollars again. I'm particularly partial to what I deem to be nicely toned dollars. I'm wondering if anyone has noticed that certain dates seem to be more available toned? Also, why are Morgan dollars more inclined to be toned than other series and denomination? I suspect that more common dates have had the process "speeded up" to make them more salable. I also suspect that Morgans have more toned specimens amongst it's population than others simply because they're more popular. I buy only slabbed coins from PCGS and NGC as a hedge against buying "recently toned" dollars, but I suspect they can be fooled as well. Then again I guess it could be debated as to what constitutes artificial toning versus natural toning as all toning indicates the introduction of a chemical agent and the difference is solely intent and how do you prove/disprove that?


There are more Morgan toners because there are more Morgans. Most of the Mint State examples - and any circulated toner must be immediately suspect just because it's circulated - lived in Mint bags, impregnated with sulfur as a rat repellent, for almost a hundred years before the Treasury released them starting in the 1960's. This process was conducive to the formation of the monster toning we see so often on them.

It is possible to tone a coin while encapsulated in a TPG slab. There was a scandal a few years back when a popular ebay seller of toners admitted in public that he did it.

As I posted above, toning isn't "NT" vs. "AT." It's all about market acceptability, since you can so easily create them artificially.
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 Posted 11/12/2017  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Read this site. Over and over again until the info is second nature...

http://www.jhonecash.com/coins/tonedmorgans.asp
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 Posted 11/12/2017  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list

Quote:
It is possible to tone a coin while encapsulated in a TPG slab. There was a scandal a few years back when a popular ebay seller of toners admitted in public that he did it.


Do you have a link to that article?
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 Posted 11/13/2017  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
As I posted above, toning isn't "NT" vs. "AT." It's all about market acceptability, since you can so easily create them artificially.
I agree.
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 Posted 11/13/2017  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Do you have a link to that article?


It was a forum discussion at PCGS (IIRC). There are any number of regular posters across the boards who are familiar with it.
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 Posted 11/13/2017  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Toning or "gassing" in slabs happens. And it gets even worse. Now they are sending the gassed slabs back in for reslabbing but under Secure Service so it A) gets the coin in a new Secure slab and B) the coin now has a True View image of the artificially toning giving it a high degree of all made up legitimacy as if the coin was graded with that color. I hope PCGS has or will find a way to.close this scam loophole.
Edited by Cascade
11/13/2017 11:26 am
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 Posted 11/13/2017  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list

Quote:
It is possible to tone a coin while encapsulated in a TPG slab. There was a scandal a few years back when a popular ebay seller of toners admitted in public that he did it.


Yes. Sadly, I know far too much about the MOC scandal. I was the one who discovered what he was doing. On an ebay search for PCGS rattler holders, I came across a group of similarly toned coins being offered by the same seller. They were very obviously artificially toned, and all in rattlers. A quick search of his recent purchases confirmed that he had bought them blast white. I started a thread showing the before and after pictures, and to my despair became aware that it was a fellow board member. The thread was subsequently deleted.
I believe this is an image of one of those coins. I only have the obverse, the reverse was toned exactly the same.


Rainbow-Toning-Question
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 Posted 11/13/2017  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list

Quote:
The toning you see is the product of what, in most cases, is called "corrosion." In numismatics, when it has a pleasing appearance, it is called "toning" instead of "corrosion" and fans pay exorbitant prices for it.



Technically speaking, toning results from corrosion, but saying that toning and corrosion are one and the same is deceptive, since corrosion has a negative connotation, and suggests an ongoing degradation of the metal. Toned coins on the other hand, can be stable with little change for dozens of years, perhaps centuries.

Let me give you the PCGS definition of corrosion.....

Quote:
PCGS defintition.
corrosion
Damage that results when reactive chemicals act upon metal. When toning ceases to be a "protective" coating and instead begins to damage a coin, corrosion is the cause. Usually confined to copper, nickel and silver regular issues, although patterns in aluminum, white metal, tin, etc., also are subject to this harmful process.

So toning can actually have a protective effect on a coins surfaces.


Quote:
When you do this artificially - and it's relatively easy if you're willing to be exact about your work and patient - you become a pariah, someone we publicly identify and disparage, because the only "acceptable" toning is that which came about by natural processes, without deliberate human help.

Yet, when done right, there is no physical way to determine whether the toning has been created artificially or naturally.

I have yet to see an artificially (or intentionally) toned Morgan that has all the criteria that would pass it off as naturally toned. The pull-away effect, textile patterns, elevation chromatics and color progression at least for now I have never seen duplicated. If they could be reproduced, there would be thousands of them.
Anyone have one to show?
I have seen a handful of questionable pieces, usually album toned, where there is just something not right about them and I can't always say why. You look at enough of them and you just get a feel.
As with all collecting niches, knowledge is the key. As was mentioned above, take a good look at Brandon's article on the Jhonecash site......well worth it.
Interesting to note that Eliasburg, Pogue, Clapp and many other major collections contained a significant amount of toned coins.....and they have remained unchanged to this day.
Let me finish this with, in my humble opinion, is a fairly nice example of how beautiful and unique naturally toned Morgans can come.

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Edited by hadleydog
11/13/2017 9:40 pm
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