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 Replies: 28 / Views: 5,289 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2210 Posts |
I know what you're saying about "original" wear and toning. It adds dimension and character to a coin. It's like a beautiful woman with no makeup.
But I would disagree about completely avoiding cleaned coins. I believe you can find cleaned coins that are not so obvious. I have a few 19th century coins in my collection that may have been cleaned at one point. But I don't need to know and I don't want to know. If it was cleaned, the cleaning is not obvious and the coin looks very nice. And the non-collectors I show it to don't know and are fascinated that such an old coin exists.
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Moderator
 United States
189142 Posts |
Quote:
How strange. I typed out an explanation about the coin, but I seem to have deleted it in error. It happens.   Quote:
It looks like it has been harshly cleaned. Possible found by metal detecting. I don't like its appearance.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
I don't know if one could prove it was cleaned. If it was, the cleaner sure did a terrible job. Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, the coin is hopelessly scratched. On the plus side, the seller is asking about half of what an undamaged specimen would go for.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
591 Posts |
Thanks for the opinions,keep 'em coming. Quote:Unfortunately if you need such a coin for a collection, you may not have a lot of choices. So many people think a coin will sell faster if cleaned. And also unfortunately they do. ebay is so full of cleaned coins you sometimes just don't have a choice unless you don't have other sources. Oddly, it does appear that way. I'm going to start perusing independent online coin shops more, coins shows, local auctions, etc. Quote:
I know what you're saying about "original" wear and toning. It adds dimension and character to a coin. It's like a beautiful woman with no makeup.  So here is a coin I just purchased (after much searching and deliberation of course). These are my pictures after receiving the coin yesterday, followed by the seller's photos. My photos:   Seller's photos:   I think the coin is generally original, other opinions? Finally, here is a coin I was considering. It has russet toning, but I see areas where it is more silvery in color, as if the toning is disturbed. Hard to tell if this is a case of a cleaned coin that has re-toned to some extent.   Edited: Also, I meant to say that I asked the seller (about the 1928-S): "has this coin been cleaned or had anything else done to it that would prevent it from being certified by PCGS or NGC?"
seller's response: "I think it will grade at services but you never know on light toned coins...If you want it graded I advise you to buy one already graded..Ijt will cost $40-$50 when you include postage so kind of expensive to have done. In my opinion its XF 40 coin uncleaned...But I dont sell based on third party opinions...you have mine. Have a look at photo and decide for yourself"Edited by one_fine_dime
01/26/2018 9:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1193 Posts |
One_fine_dime - those two coins are a classic example of why it's so hard to tell if a coin has been cleaned. The scratches look light to me but sometimes the opinion is that they came from light circulation while another opinion is that someone cleaned the coin. IMO, they look pretty nice for their age however it could go either way. To make things more confusing, here is a Peace dollar that looks HEAVILY cleaned to me but straight graded, this has to be a mistake right? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-AU55-...AOSwmtJXVYL0 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
LibertyEagle20, thanks for posting about the Peace dollar. It goes to show that one can never be sure when it comes to cleaning. However, I am surprised PCGS saw fit to not detail that coin due to excessive scratching. It would be hard to believe that was mint-issued. As for Mercury dimes, my opinion is that most of them have been cleaned already so it's only a matter of finding ones you like. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
@LibertyEagle20 - I'm very eager to see others' thoughts, but this Peace dollar is indeed interesting! I'm am often thrown off when I see scratches on close-ups of slabbed coins as they are sometimes actually just on the plastic holder itself! On the first two photos, the hairlines seem to be oriented 9 o'clock / 3 o'clock; but in the second two photos (zoomed out to show entire holder), I see a tone of hairlines that are more 12 o'clock / 3 o'clock. So what's going on? Are the close-up photos also taken through the holder? And/or is the difference due to a slightly different angle reflecting light. I do see what looks like some really great mint luster, which I don't think one would expect on a cleaned coin (but maybe). I also see what looks like some brownish something around her nose. Is that tone "residue" leftover from a cleaning? I agree about it often being a challenge to discern between scratches from normal circulation and from a past cleaning when you only have one photo to consider. Inspecting a coin in person and rotating it in the light allows one to see if the hairlines are all in one direction (often an indicator of a cleaning), or if they are fairly uniform in all directions, which could just be indicative of normal circulation. Edited by one_fine_dime
01/26/2018 10:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
Just an FYI...Great Southern has a reputation of overgrading and doctored images. I completely avoid them. The 26-S isn't bad but it looks like it was lightly washed with soap some time ago.
The 28-S looks like it was cleaned and is retoning.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if a coin was cleaned or not. It really takes experience and viewing many coins over time to know what to look for.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Edited by one_fine_dime
01/26/2018 10:36 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I just went back and looked at that 17S again. For $15 and $3 shipping, still not a bad deal although cleaned. Yet placed on a window sill in a kitchen should tone down a bit over time. And for a coin over 100 years old, still not a bad price.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
Regarding that Peace dollar, that was obviously cleaned and it's disappointing to see a TPG like PCGS straight grade it. It's not uncommon either, I see obvious graded coins in TPG holders all the time.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Really good discussion, this is super helpful! @just carl - I know it! something about the coin remains compelling. I may ask the seller the following, which was suggested in a recent Coin Week article (that I highly recommend!): " Has this coin been cleaned or had anything else done to it that would prevent it from being certified by PCGS or NGC?" $18 is pretty much the Blue Book price...so I agree, not bad. Can you tell me more about kitchen window sills? I'm intrigued. Here's the article - https://coinweek.com/coins/news/how...ins-on-ebay/@chesterb - "lightly washed with soap". Yes, very interesting...shouldn't remove toning but clearly it seems to do something to the surface. what do you see there? While I feel the 1926-S is likely a decent pick up for the price (paid $80 shipped), I agree about being wary of this seller. I much prefer simplicity in photos and the subtle scratch by her nose took me by surprise once I had the coin in hand...so they effectively hid that with their sleight of hand photography. Edited by one_fine_dime
01/26/2018 11:12 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10635 Posts |
I agree the original Merc was harshly cleaned, and, btw, is not FSB  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
So I ask this seller: " Has this coin been cleaned or had anything else done to it that would prevent it from being certified by PCGS or NGC?" Seller's Response: " I see nothing that would keep this coin from being graded."  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
Quote:Just came across this one...I would not have thought "cleaned" if I saw it in the raw: https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-di...Lot=1x=0&y=0 You're right. It looks fine. Only hint I may have is those black spots on the olive leaves on the rev. That seems to happen after cleaning sometimes. |
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Replies: 28 / Views: 5,289 |
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Posted 01/26/2018 2:34 pm
