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Replies: 25 / Views: 4,950 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
This is what Mike and co put on their error-ref site about improper annealing that may help to understand, but yes error identification is something thats always an ongoing learning process that takes time and a very long time to master https://www.error-ref.com/improper-annealing/ Apparently I need to be yodas species to understand it all in 900 years  Quote: I ask you because from 2018 is no more annealing on the Mint. @Silviosi, its still listed here currently on the mint website as part of the production process. Is this article out of date to current methods? Its Dated July 6, 2022 last updated. https://www.usmint.gov/learn/produc...n-production
Edited by datadragon 02/03/2023 08:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Data, it still on Web, Yes I know. No deny this.
PM me and I will send you the Mint reports you to read.. I do not say this coin is not annealing default, could be from supplier also. Data, if you read the reports you will see that the Mint receive the blanks ready for Mill and strike in the case of the cents. Before 2000 a cent production was 0.78 cent, to day it is 1.21 cent, so they will cut on the provider. This go from 3 years. They look also to replace the zinc which now cost much more then the non magnetic steal.
For the other coins same, the blanks are received ready for Mill and strike.
The difference it is PROOF and Medals, also bullion.
Edited by silviosi 02/02/2023 11:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Ok that is interesting info. The mint link I just posted mentions that For pennies, numismatic coins, and bullion coins, the Mint buys blanks instead of making them but then The blanks are transported to the annealing furnace for the next stage of the process so the mint on their site is saying they do buy blanks but then would anneal them still next if that is correct. If it is done elsewhere by a supplier for that stage it still is annealed I would imagine as part of the process they mention it goes through. "They look also to replace the zinc which now cost much more then the non magnetic steal" - Yes see my post here as I looked into that actually in December in another thread http://goccf.com/t/436352&whichpage=2#3753548
Edited by datadragon 02/03/2023 12:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Yes DATA you are right. They do not made. except some coins the annealing. I agree that defaults annealing could happened any time to the distributors as could happened at Mint facility. Difference NO. When the Mint receive the blanks are already annealed.. Why? simply, today the annealing is far back. They cut the blanc with laser what eliminate the annealing. Report of the 2008 of the Mint.
Now, even it is a high technology, this do not mean will be perfect and errors and defaults will not be on the road, This technologies will eliminate many errors or defaults but it is far to be perfect.
For us in collecting is most, to understand the new processes and to see what it is. I know some attributions or points of view will change, but we do not have to many choice. We will find errors and varieties but will be according by the new technology.
For this reason I say all the time we have to analyze each coin according by the period was strike and not by a pre-acquired knowledge.
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Jim0815, You might want to ask Mike to read this thread. Also,would weighing the dime with a scale that reads down to 0.001 grams help any? John1 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5239 Posts |
John1, it's weight is 2.26 grams.
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Moderator
 United States
15450 Posts |
That dime would be a challenge for me to attribute.
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Moderator
 United States
96544 Posts |
I still have questions about this one - Why does it appear like the coppery color is pealing up to expose the silver below? 1. In picture 4 (close up of the word DIME - looks like the top layer (Coppery color) is folded up and over itself away from the rim exposing the silver color 2. In picture 6 (Close up of 'ED ST') in between the D and S it appears to be bubbled up in 3 spots (judging from the lighting), and between the letters and the olive branch it looks like it is pealing up. 3. In picture 2 (full coin image of reverse) What is going on to the area by the bottom of the torch (bottom left? (it looks like a blister), and between the bottom of the oak branch and the M of DIME (same thing). Not saying it ain't an annealing thing, just have questions here.  I hope if Mike shows up, he can answer some of my questions also.
Edited by Dearborn 02/03/2023 07:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5239 Posts |
I have emailed Mr. Diamond. I hope that he can take the time to address all of the questions surrounding this coin.
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Moderator
 United States
96544 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
In an improper annealing error, copper and nickel atoms segregate out, with the copper atoms usually migrating to the surface. Effects include those observed here, among which are peeling and "bubbling" of the surface copper.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
@Silviosi and others - As of 2014 so far - Fraunhofer studied replacing the current mechanical die blanking and on-site annealing with laser blanking and off-site bulk annealing. Currently, blanks are punched from coils of coinage strip, and the rough blanks are deburred and then annealed to soften, for formation of the raised rim on an upset machine, before being struck on a coinage press.Fraunhofer also studied retaining the on-site annealing but replacing the current die-blanking with laser blanking. Fraunhofer concluded that the laser blanking would not offer substantial savings compared to the current mechanical die blanking.Suggestions for additional examination include non-laser blanking alternatives, such as die-blanking with a "push-back station" that might be able to directly blank annealed material without distorting the blanks and cutting blanks using water jets. https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...-s-mint.html
Edited by datadragon 02/03/2023 11:49 pm
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Moderator
 United States
96544 Posts |
Quote: copper and nickel atoms segregate out, with the copper atoms usually migrating to the surface. Effects include those observed here, among which are peeling and "bubbling" of the surface copper. Ahh!  , ok, that makes sense. Thanks Mike. I understand a little bit more..
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5239 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5779 Posts |
Very interesting thread and coin.
(This might explain a dime I found last year with small random areas of copper on the surface of both sides. Now to hunt it down and look more closely.)
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Replies: 25 / Views: 4,950 |
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