Yours might be the rev B state but I don't see the cracks; if there is a thin crack above ST and OF then it's the B; the crack develops all the way and goes through 1st A in AM then out to rim in state C rev
Thanks paralyse. Looking at that reverse in the subject coin, that die state looks flawless to me. Starting with the dentils/rim to the wreath to everything else in the reverse.
Other reverse die state B coins like the B/B coin linked above, has the die state B reverse but there is no sign of any cracks where you indicate in the reverse. https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...s-63-bn-PCGS
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
The example I used for comparison and the one with which I am more familiar (ex: Twin Leaf, Grellman/McCawley, AU58 CAC green bean) was attributed by Mr. Grellman as the B state rev, the cracks are VERY faintly visible just to the left of O. Bill Noyes did not distinguish it himself in his book but it would be logical that reverse B can probably be split into "early B" and "later B" states.
I think my "best" 1816 is probably EAC VG8 or thereabouts, it's always a treat to behold such a beautiful example as yours.
I'd say it's mint state, MS61/62BN but a TPG would probably grade it higher.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.
Hi westcoin. Wondering why in a 0-10 uncirculated scale you would say it rates 1-2. Is this really bottom of the barrel in terms of unc cents? Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Thanks to all for your helpful comments. NGC opined it a 3. Paid $1,323. There are a couple of 1816 cents being auctioned off tonight in the sale of the Col. Ellsworth Collection. One is an N-2 (same variety as this one) in MS64BN which is currently bid to $3,240 and an MS63BN example of a scarcer variety, the N-7 in MS63BN (same grade as this one) which is currently bid to $2,100. Both have CAC stickers. Will be interesting to see where they end up when the auction dust settles tonight. Feel like I received good value in my purchase.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
The MS64BN N-2 sold for $4,320. The MS63BN N-7 sold for $3,120. Wow.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
This came in today. Let me know if you have further thoughts. Thanks!
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IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Quote: Hi westcoin. Wondering why in a 0-10 uncirculated scale you would say it rates 1-2. Is this really bottom of the barrel in terms of unc cents? Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Always difficult to tell a grade from a static photo. My reasoning was the color looked to be coming back from a previous old cleaning, the few hits I do see appeared large and on main pick up points of visual importance. The look of the coin also caused me to pause - was this coin smoothed using some sort of burnishing technique? No way to tell from the photos alone, but thought it could be, hence the lower grade I gave. To be fair I did say a TPG would probably and likely give a higher grade than I did - and NGC certainly did.
After seeing the video which wasn't great but does show the surface better in motion under a lamp, I'm inclined to now agree with the MS63BN grade, I'm still not crazy about the color changing in areas on the reverse at all and that looks like a heat treatment I've seen on other coins to hide something. But the coin is certainly an UNC and a nice one for the date. This was a tough time in our history to get coins out of the mint in any quantity at all, surprising that those that did remained in such nice shape after so long.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
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Posted 02/25/2023 01:50 am
