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 Replies: 56 / Views: 5,225 |
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Valued Member
 United States
103 Posts |
Close.  Was your guess 'what ICCS would grade it' or what you actually think a TPG like PCGs or NGC would also grade it? Not even sure it would straight grade as mint state copper anywhere else, and absolutely 0 chance it gets a 4 or 'red'  Edited by LandonM
09/25/2026 09:29 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
874 Posts |
Quote:There's a market reality to TPGs that exists whether we like it or not; they determine a marketable grade and until a coin is in a credible TPG holder, its marketability is diminished. In a perfect world, there would be no need for them but we live in this world where sadly, they're important to the marketability of the coin. The core trouble is, that "marketability" is, to a significant extent, to people who are not coin collectors. That slab transforms a coin from something of interest to a specialist, to something which can be bought and sold as a commodity based on price quotations in a catalogue, without any knowledge of or interest in what it is. Thus we have all this money going into "investment-grade" coins, which are then held by a money manager or as collateral by a bank, not by collectors ; and the effect of forcing the market price up, while attractive if you are trying to liquidate your collection, keeps new collectors from entering the hobby. Edited by publius
09/25/2026 10:43 am
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
Quote:
The core trouble is, that "marketability" is, to a significant extent, to people who are not coin collectors. That slab transforms a coin from something of interest to a specialist, to something which can be bought and sold as a commodity based on price quotations in a catalogue, without any knowledge of or interest in what it is. Thus we have all this money going into "investment-grade" coins, which are then held by a money manager or as collateral by a bank, not by collectors ; and the effect of forcing the market price up, while attractive if you are trying to liquidate your collection, keeps new collectors from entering the hobby. That was the point of third party grading. The critiques of TPG run deep (and most are very valid), but it's a reality and it's not going anywhere. I don't think the sorts of coins 'held as collateral by money managers' are influencing any entry points to the hobby, if anything TPG allows people at all economic levels who cannot grade coins themselves (itself a weird qualitative skill set that most people simply cannot effectively do, no matter how much they study) a means to participate in the hobby. The broader philosophy of TPG has been discussed to death. Of interest here is some niche TPGs assigning high mint state Sheldon grades that wouldn't often be duplicated by larger, more credible and rigorous TPGs. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5660 Posts |
From my vantagepoint, and someone who has collected earnestly for maybe 45-50 years, it just seems to me that there has just been "grade creep", where an MS62 thirty years ago becomes a 63 or 64 with grading in 2015 or 2020. I think that collectors that are looking to store stuff away until after they retire or old age don't rush in, they buy the coin, not the plastic and fictional numbers. I don't think that people laying out lots of Franklins in the last few years are buying the plastic and not someone else's numbers. They are buying the coins as they see them, and probably searching the internet to see if any coin or plastic is true to their own eyes.
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
Yeah grade inflation is totally real generally speaking but in this specific case, I think it's a grader routinely assigning high Sheldon grades no other TPG would for coins exhibiting those condition characteristics. |
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
This one's a bit hilarious   Any guesses what grade ICCS gave this? Hint: this is a blatant details coin anywhere else. but not at ICCS. |
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New Member
Canada
35 Posts |
The image is unfortunately a bit blurry due to holder but it seems to have AU details. Looks like there are a few bag marks or scrapes in field and on effigy as well. IMO, the rim edge is slightly too worn to be MS. Was this coin gently cleaned at one point and a patina slowly redeveloped before it was holdered? Not having in hand is problematic, but if I to guess I'd call this AU-50 (cleaned).
Edited by rjd1402
10/06/2026 8:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5660 Posts |
Wear in the hair, scratches on the cheek, the "6" has been hit, cleaned, and environmental damage on the Rev. I'd say I would give it an XF-40, but maybe ICCS gave them an AU.
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5660 Posts |
I'm amazed, for lack of a better post.
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New Member
Canada
35 Posts |
I'd like to speak my mind on this, but it would have to be done euphemistically or I'll be banned, so I'll leave it at that. BTW, do you possess this coin Landon, and if so, what grade would you have given it?
Edited by rjd1402
Yesterday 2:41 pm
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
No I don't, nor would I. That's among the worst ones I've seen yet. Technically it's an AU/UNC leaner (would have to see it in hand) but blatantly a no grade details/cleaned coin. Calling it a FIVE? Absolutely unreal. I thought my own experience with abysmal ICCS grading took the cake but nope. That one takes the cake. I mean for thre love of gord, you can still see the old polishing compound jammed into the devices  Edited by LandonM
Yesterday 7:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5660 Posts |
Well, ICCS holders USED to be easy to change coins with, don't know about now..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1378 Posts |
Ths one likely has been in this holder since just before the Victoria North auction in early 2015. Because of the pedigree and grade, it will probably be in that holder forever. I saw it in hand then, but do not remember it. I made no catalogue note on it, which means I declined to bid on it. According to iCollector, it did not sell in that auction. Starting bid price of $3,000 CAD plus 15% juice was not met. Based on the photos below, IMHO the other major TPGs today would grade the coin MS, but probably not red. Images by Moore Numismatic Auctions and iCollector. Click to enlarge.  http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award, 2025 Guy Potter Literary Award, 2022 Paul Fiocca Award, & 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
Today 5H 20M ago
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Pillar of the Community
United States
691 Posts |
I agree with Bosox. I think PCGS would body bag it as UNC details scratch. If it were to straight grade maybe 62/63 RB.
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Posted 09/25/2026 10:43 am
