Chalkis Hoard

2 separate issues here:

1. The hoard that was found in Greece and ended up mostly elsewhere. According to what has been stated by Sap about the law there, this incident was illegal and should have been stopped. That it was not, is what sounds like initially prompted the OP's questions. Sounds like a law may have been broken, and if so, it was wrong. Laws are Laws... their roof, their rule.

2. Greek coins being sold/traded/collected elsewhere.

As previously stated, coins are for commerce - their specific purpose is to circulate and go places. They know no borders. They travel(ed) with the people when they traveled/moved/went to war/bought things. They end up all over the world. All coins in history have done this and they will keep doing it until coins and currency give way to a World Credit Chip implanted in our thumb.

Specifically about Americans.. most immigrated from somewhere and brought their coins with them - whether they were from Great Britain, Poland, or Greece. It's our history, and our heritage, too.

And as numismatists, we are ALL custodians of history in our own way - we learn about the coins we have, find, or acquire, appreciate the history behind them that brought them into being, and protect them for future generations. From the knowledge we gain, we also grow to appreciate not only our ancestors but other countries as well - their history, their wars and times of peace, their way of life.




Hmm.. yes, respect is a well-understood concept around here. Usually. Either you enjoy making argumentative statements to retards, or that was just thrown in there because of your anger. I would prefer to think it was the latter.




Take a deep breath. That's not what was said.



On another note..
Swamperbob - wow! What a great place to grow up. I'd have loved to have been so attached to my heritage, and known that my ancestors waaaay back had lived right there, too.

LOL, now that the OPs ranting has been proven to be spurious since the coins is question are not Greek but instead Venetian, I wonder if he will be back and rescind some of the inflammatory comments made?

As far as the OP's original problem is concerned, the country of origin of the coins is irrelevant. The Greek law, which has been in place since 1950, is clear: anything older than 1820 is a protected artefact, whether "Greek in origin" or not. The fact remains that these coins were pre-1820 artefacts buried on Greek soil, and exporting them from Greece was a crime (in Greece).

But as far as tracking down the smugglers is concerned, I think any efforts today will be futile. The deed was done in the "late 1970's"; it's quite possible the perpetrators are dead by now, and if so, they'd have taken their secret to the grave. Unlike counterfeiters, smugglers aren't generally proud of their work and don't go around bragging about it to their heirs.

If the Greek government wants to waste it's resources trying to track down a 30 year old smuggling outfit, good luck to them. I personally think those resources could be better spent on tracking down current smugglers, but then, I'm not a Greek taxpayer, so my opinion is irrelevant.

So, should owners of "Chalkis hoard" coins feel guilty? I wouldn't think so - it's way too late to do anything about it. If Greece wants their coins back, they can pay full market price for them, when they come up for sale (FORVM currently has 19 of 'em for sale at prices ranging from $60 to $28 each); if they want "compensation" they should extract it from the smugglers, if they're ever found.

As you can see, this topic started as a conversation about the hoard. Later on the discussion went to the matter of other ancient artefacts. So, I am not saying that the hoard coins were ancient. However they minted in Venice, their purpose was to serve activities of the Greek market and be used by Greece. Also according the law those coins should stayed in Greece, is very simple actually.

I have no internet connection those days and so I cannot really answer to all the posts. See you again in few days.

Whether their law is right is not for me to judge; I'm not subject to their laws. I own about 50 "Greek" coins, 4 of which come from cities currently within Greek territory; I also own 2 mediaeval Greek coins. Like Swamperbob, I too have no idea of their provenance; it's reasonable to assume most if not all of them were illegally smuggled out of the country. If the Greek government wishes to reappropriate coins I currently own (like the one in my avatar, from Rhodes), they'll have to do it within the confines of Australian law - unless I were to be so foolish as to take some of my ancient coins with me on a visit to Greece.

I'm all in favour of "just compensation". The problem in Greece is, they're a poor country with a vast number of artefacts, and simply can't afford to pay everyone for "their" artefacts in the same way a richer country (like Britain) can. The Greeks have gotten around this problem by simply forbidding private ownership of anything pre-1820. If by law they were never yours to begin with, they don't have to compensate you for taking them away from you.

Greece is a democracy; if the majority of people didn't like the laws, they'd vote for people who would change them. I can only assume most of the people there do in fact like them, because these laws make doing everyday things like constructing roads and buildings far more complicated and tedious than they would otherwise be. Certainly none of the major parties in Greece at the moment have changing these laws as a party policy; the left-wing socialist parties would be opposed to expanding private ownership of things on principle, and the right-wing nationalist parties would say "Greece belongs to the Greeks".

And if you in America think it can't happen to you, check out this thread - successful lobbying from the Cypriot government (which is ethnically Greek and has a similar attitude to antiquities as Greece) recently saw laws in the US passed which ban the importation of coins from Cyprus, whether the person importing them has clear legal ownership of the coins or not. Until and unless this matter is resolved, don't try to import or export coins you own which originally came from ancient Cyprus to or from America.

Ok, let's stop right here. We WILL stay on track with trying to find you more info about these coins. We WILL NOT start throwing comments around like this. Besides the fact of me taking offense to this comment as a whole, no good can come from the replies you would receive. it's over, right now.




Problem is, we should be talking about coins here period. You asked a question, and you received some answers. It seems the true motive for this thread was to make people aware of Greek law and how things like "ancient artifacts" were handled in Greece. I say mission accomplished.




That statement is just argumentative. There is no need for it. I am not defending any single individual here, but this three page thread has nothing to do with the original question.




According to Greek law posted above (which I know nothing about), this seems to be true for Greece as of 1950. Every country has their own rules and every person has their own beliefs. You feel strongly about your beliefs, and that is perfectly fine. The problem arises when you insinuate that other people are absolutely wrong or "bad" people if their beliefs are not the same as yours. That is not acceptable.

Regardless, this thread has run its course. If there is any information pertaining to the original question, feel free to post it. This was a pretty good "opinion" thread for a while, but it is not going in the correct direction at this time. I will not lock it up unless it continues to spiral.

And here is their write up on the hoard. It's nearly word-for-word what you first posted.

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/ca...s=0&open=872

I had no problem to stick to the original subject. I just had to answer to replies I received which they had nothing to do with it, also.