Spanish Colonial Junk Silver: What Would You Do?

I did a side by side comparison of the portrait on your coin with a real Mexican 8R and the measurements indicate it is a fake. The chin is too straight on the lower side and the indent at the lip is too short. The nose is totally the wrong shap and is about 20% too short when measured from a baseline drawn from the hairline to the neck chin line intersection. In addition the forehead is not the same shape. I think I can match it given enough time, but with no date it is unlikely to be worth too much. Still very interesting because it circulated a VERY LONG time. Proves the forgery was successful.

I was unaware it was a two real. I jumped to the conclusion it was an 8R because there is a counterfeit 8R that uses a profile resembling the 2R. The mint for the coin is clearly Mexico City based on the assayer initials TH and looking again more closely I can now see the 2.

So I have to reverse my diagnosis - it is most likely real. The profiles on the 2R and on the 8R have distinctly different proportions.

Bust design actually varied by denomination for EVERY denomination. Mexico City used a "King Punch" system to make working dies in which the major element on each die was on one punch (the King punch) and then letters (sometimes entire words) were punched in afterward by the die sinkers. (The process is written up in Riddell and elsewhere).

The King Punches used at Mexico City did vary but they only changed periodically as they wore out or broke which amounted to about every decade or two. There were no reducing lathes in use to copy a master pattern so each King Punch was created separately. The King's portrait varies ONLY when the King Punch is retired.

There may be small added details that vary die to die. The reasons for these minor variations are usually because of poor initial punch setting (so as not to waste the die blank) or they can be caused by damage to the die while in use (clashes come to mind). But even in those cases, the profile is still uniform for all assayer TH coins.

It is similar to the changes in Lincoln's portrait on the US cent that occur every time the Master Hub is redone. Most collectors don't even notice but the small changes are there. Just compare a pre-1980 cent to a post 2000 cent and you can readily see the hub changes. They are numerous.

I never hand any coin over to melt. NOT yet anyway. I really do not believe in it, because a really worn junk coin got me started collecting over 50 years ago. It is still only a melt coin - but I still own it. I remember best the cheap junk coins I owned when I was 7 or 8. I carried them with me everywhere. I loved them. I held them and could imagine the history they represented. The near junk coins are all some kids can afford and keeping a nearly dateless 2R around for some kid to own and love in the future is worth it to me.

That is why I have boxes of junk silver all over the place. I guess if I needed the money to live on - they would go first. But until then they will sit - safe from the melting pot.

Archraz, if you ever want to sell them for melt to get a nicer coin, I would buy them from you at melt to keep them out of the melters pot. Or I could trade you for a nice 8, I have hundreds of duplicates in my collection. I would never let a coin like that go to the scrapper. You could start a kid coin collecting with a coin like that and create a future forum member.
Spanish silver saw a lot of circulation so there are lots of worn coins out there looking for love.

The duplicates are not as impressive when taken in perspective. Lots of them are a result of purchasing low grade examples when I was young and just starting out and then having to upgrade to better ones as my knowledge increased. I also was in the right place at the right time when certain dealers were bringing back bags full of portraits and resplandores from overseas and they were selling them cheap (slightly over their silver value at the time) to recover their investment quickly. I used to be allowed to spend hours cherry picking through them before they were "bulk sold" to other dealers. If only I had known then what I know now, I would have an amazing collection. As it is, I am missing about 5 Mo mintmark 8 reales (and some of the more obscure over dates) between 1732 and 1897, but I let most of the other mints slip through my fingers when I could have been setting aside the better examples.

I know I'm a little late here, but I could never melt coins like these. If you think about it, coins like this were the original continental currency. The lower mintage ones would have been the most likely to see circulation. To me, that is just too much history there to make into a place setting or picture frame. I'd gladly stand second in line to buy these off of you if it meant they would avoid destruction. Heck, I'd even pay a premium over melt.

jfransch- WOW! That is amazing that bulk lots like that were on the market. From where did these lots originate? Hoards in Spain, Central America, or other areas of the world where they freely circulated? If you ever do get a chance to dig through some of your 8s, I would love to see any possible fakes or other interesting examples. I must say that as a fellow student of the "Swamperbob School of Fake Coin Detection" and 8R lover I am rather embarrassed to ask as to what a "resplandore" is. I just always presumed that it was a Cap & Ray 8 or one of the 8s issued after 1821 in Mexico but before the aforementioned design was produced. Am I right about this?

jfransch- Thanks for the info regarding terminology. That must have been thrilling to dig through those bags. I just wish that I had been on the numismatic scene back in those days.

Just out of curiosity, when was it that Spanish Colonial 8s actually started to really become popular with collectors? I have just seen so many books from the 1920s- the 1950s which really just gloss over them or list them as being worth virtually their bullion value.