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What Causes This Seperation - 09 Fy Cent - Plus Die Clash?

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Valued Member
United States
91 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2010  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brent Williams to your friends list
Thanks Scooby, I have tried to get some better shots here - it looks like Lincoln is wearing a hair piece (there is some of the hairlines but looks like all the finer hair is gone - smooth as a baby's butt) and the nose appears to be floating off the face. I see a very small die crack on the forehead and the before mentioned "die clash" on the neck and face.

My gut says the separation of hair and nose is Struck Through Grease but a lot of the hair is fine - bold features that are on all coins. Anyway, I think it is a cool coin and hope to find out what does this.

Thanks,
Brent

P.S. the color of the last 5 pictures is because I put my finger in front of the flash to get rid of the glare.

What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash? What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash? What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash? What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash? What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash? What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash?

Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2010  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list
I definitely agree with you on the die clash and it's a nice one. If I would have thought about beforehand, I could have deduced from your first picture that it was LP3.

LOL @ toupee, I suppose it could be grease, but I'm leaning more toward die wear or maybe a weak strike?

These pics are a little better to work with and the pros can do amazing things with pics. I'm sure you will hear from them soon. I don't want to steer you wrong.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2010  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Definite die clash on the neck.
What-Causes-This-Seperation---09-Fy-Cent---Plus-Die-Clash?
First image I've seen so far with this LP3 clash. Please post images when you can get better ones. I would like to add this to my educational file. If you find a second one I would trade a LP2 die clash for one.
Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2010  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list
After the dies clash they are repaired by polishing off the clash marks. This die was over polished causing the weakness you see at the hair and nose. The polishing still didn't remove the clash marks on Lincoln's neck.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2010  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list
New pictures are much better That is one heck of a die clash and it is amazing that so much design was removed with the polishing yet a good part of the clash is left. It is not really worth anything but it is a very good example of a Lincoln die clash, thanks for sharing.
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United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  04:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list
The missing parts on the head/nose are because of die grease filling the die...left behind from polishing, correct?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1934 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  06:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list
That is a nice find.
Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list
The misssing parts are missing because they have been polished off. Grease has nothing to do with this one.
Valued Member
United States
91 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brent Williams to your friends list
Thanks for the info - this does help me out tremendously. I have noticed now on the rev. there are some clash marks also. With the very cool overlay that coop so kindly posted I would have to say they appear to be parts of Lincoln ear, eye and nose area, between E. Pluribus and the outline of the grounds.

I will try to get my lighting set up to get better pictures and will definitely post clashes found on rev.

coop I tried to e-mail you but it said I am not allowed to. If you would like me to send you the coin so you can take pictures the way that best fits you, just let me know.

pyrbob, biokemist6, steve199, j_h_s, and Scooby TOO, Thanks for the input - The more you guys respond, the more myself and others learn - Thank you all.

Pictures later

Peace
Brent
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United States
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 Posted 04/25/2010  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list
I didn't go with die polishing because I'm not really seeing the polishing marks. Why would they polish around his hair and nose and leave the eyesores (in their opinion) on the neck? Based on coops overlay, there doesn't seem like there would be much to polish in the hairline and behind the nose area.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Brent: Thanks for the offer. The reason you couldn't email me is that the number of posts need to be over a certain number. I checked your profile to email you but the information isn't on your profile yet or released yet. We can wait till you reach that number then you can email me. No big rush. Lets wait to see when you reach that number and go from there. Thanks again Brent.
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United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list

Quote:
The misssing parts are missing because they have been polished off.


But I don't understand how the deep parts of a die can get polished away. THe more metal removed from the devices on the die would result in details that are more raised, not flat and even with the fields, right?

I'm sure you guys are right, I just need help picturing it.
Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2010  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list
Since the fields are the highest part of the die they get the majority of the clashing. The die is polished in the fields to remove the clashing. This die was polished so much that the shallow parts of the devices ended up even with the field (the area around the hairline and nose). The clashing in the devises at the neck were not removed and can still be seen.
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United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2010  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list
Thanks, pyrbob, I got it now...
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2010  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Steve: The outside edge of the die is the field. The devices are sunk into the die. But something missed is that the devices are not all the same depth. Some are more shallow than others so some devices in the mind range can be polished off. But sometimes the clash is very strong. The clash may affect into the mid depth area of the die. Leaving marks from the reverse die on the obverse shallow areas. Cleaning/polishing the die may remove some of the marks in the field, but sometime they clash marks are lower than the field and not removed.

Sometimes you may receive coins after a clash before the cleaning/polishing can take place. So there may be more than one example before they stop the machine.
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