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1853 Arrows Dime

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 Posted 05/13/2010  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Can I ask what specifically makes you think that about the photos though?


The granularity of the images. It's especially noticeable at 3:00 on the reverse - that's what oversharpening looks like. It jumped out at me. Innocent, perhaps - I sharpen many of my own images - but it's also a technique to mask less-innocent postprocessing work when you do it last instead of first.
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 Posted 05/13/2010  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
I kind of see what you mean, could you link me to some more examples of it?
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 Posted 05/13/2010  01:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
I kind of see what you mean, could you link me to some more examples of it?


Better yet - come morning, I'll oversharpen some of my own images and post before/afters.
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 Posted 05/13/2010  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
Sounds like a plan
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 Posted 05/13/2010  01:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list
[quote]Oh wow, that is awesome! I used to (try to) play harder classical pieces like the Chopin Scherzos, but unfortunately I now have tendonitis, so I can't any more. When I stopped I was pretty close to completing Scherzo #3....its a really dramatic and amazing piece.

I mostly play the hymns for church now, and some moderate level classical pieces like tocatta and fugue in D minor.

quote]

Sweet! that's hardcore! That's too bad about the tendonitus. The only thing classical that I can play is Clare de lune. Even though I've taken lessons for years, I'm slow at reading, and mostly rely on my ear and chord knowlege. I'm working on some jazz improvisational techniques too, and trying to learn the dynamics of playing in a band....lots of fun!

I see what folks are saying about the coin, but it still has a lot of remaining luster and nice color. Probably cleaned or dipped at one point, but not too harshly or the luster would have been stripped. I never really considered photo reprocessing, so I'm learning something new. Good point!
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 Posted 05/13/2010  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Before and Afters, original on top, and some have been overdone a little more than others:

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

1853-Arrows-Dime

Now. Here's what you'll see in a typical ebay photograph:

1853-Arrows-Dime

Here's what it'll look like in-hand:

1853-Arrows-Dime
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 Posted 05/13/2010  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
Yeah no surprise, seen that happen a lot before. I see the difference now though, and I will certainly be on the look out for grainy photos. It doesn't always mean that the coin has been cleaned though, right? I'm just guessing youre saying that it can be used to hide cleanings and the like?
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 Posted 05/13/2010  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Yeah no surprise, seen that happen a lot before. I see the difference now though, and I will certainly be on the look out for grainy photos. It doesn't always mean that the coin has been cleaned though, right? I'm just guessing youre saying that it can be used to hide cleanings and the like?


Exactly. Not necessarily malicious, either.

I use stuff like this more as a red flag, an indicator that I need to look at the coin and the seller more closely. Arbitrary sharpening is indicative of someone who doesn't want to get too deep into things and actually, you know, improve their skills. If they're missing such obvious stuff in their photography, what are they missing about the coin?
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 Posted 05/13/2010  10:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
Yeah, the 1921 dollar did have an unnatural look to it though even from far back. Looked kind of 'whizzed' but many buyers would just assume it was fine. The grainyness seems also to be a way to bump up the luster, I wouldnt be surprised if it was used by sellers like GSC, whom I am also pretty suspicious of. I'm gonna steer clear of the Half Dime for a type set coin and go for something more reliable. If it was an auction and I could win it for $50 or something, I'd be willing to risk a shot at it. Seated coins are amongst my favorites, so I want to make sure I have really nice ones in my type set.

I find though that a lot of buyers recognize that this seller (fairtraderz) is notorious for pushing cleaned stuff, so they bid really low, and if youre careful you can cherry pick some of the nicer ones off him at a discount in the auctions. This is particularly true for the clearly cleaned stuff; got an AU-58 cleaned 1873 quarter off him for $75 once, and the cleaning wasnt nearly as bad in hand.

His BIN's are ridiculous a lot of the time though, so I usually steer clear of them. One time I bought an 1845-O dime off him, knew it was cleaned, but not polished. I think it was an auction....And I really did want to believe it wasn't polished, but it certainly was and there was no denying it. I returned it and he just relisted it without mentioning the polishing at all. Its not just this coin either, I've seen him do it over and over. I bet they'd just try to claim that they don't have enough time to list everything correctly, but I don't really buy that.
Edited by coinguybrian
05/13/2010 10:56 am
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 Posted 05/13/2010  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimR to your friends list
It appears there may be some hairlines on the obverse as well. These may be hidden due to the angle that Dave is talking about.
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 Posted 05/13/2010  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list
I actually have seen some fairly reasonable prices from this seller. He had a whole bunch of PCGS G-6 graded 1921-d walkers at one point for $300 a piece BIN a few months ago, which at the time was the lowest BIN I'd seen. I considered it, but he lives in California so I'd therefore be taxed.
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 Posted 05/14/2010  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
Claire de lune is still pretty long and fairly involved though, its a nice piece. And yeah, I think this is one of those sellers where you need to cherrypick their offerings, I guess.
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 Posted 05/19/2010  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
I picked up this one instead:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...TRK:MEWNX:IT

It was sold on teletrade for $90. The seller struck me as....ridiculous. He copy pasted the teletrade description in broken english, LOL.

Nonetheless, I offered him a little more than $90, he initially turned down my offer of $90 even. Probably accepted because he was having trouble selling it. Was surprised when he accepted. Anyway, we will see how it looks in hand! $110 shipped may not be a great price for this coin, but it looks pretty nice to me.

Edit: NVM, the $90 was without the buyers fee and shipping. So he just broke even.
Edited by coinguybrian
05/19/2010 9:02 pm
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 Posted 05/19/2010  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rigoletto to your friends list
How are they altering the appearance of the coins? Are they using a filter in Photoshop or going in and cleaning the images up?
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 Posted 05/20/2010  02:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add delaner to your friends list
Dave - this is interesting! It had never occurred to me that sellers might doctor their photography *that* much. I figured the basics - brightness and contrast - but never imagined sharpening or anything like that. Last week when I was looking at a "no date", I grossly enlarged a section and ran some filters over it, played with curves and levels to determine the date. I'll be sharpening might've saved me some time! It also seems to bring out more of the coin's flaws, so I might use this as a sort of inspection as I review my own or other people's photographs in the future. Thank you!!
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