Anyone Have Problems With PCGS Grading

Lighting isn't great but here you go.

I sent in about a total of 17 coins only 9 were graded. I did not take pictures of most of the gold.

The quarter is about the same brightness as the other quarters. Comparing it to the other two. I think it should be at least a MS64. Its at least as good as the other MS64 quarter. I couldn't get a good picture of them side by side light and glare issues. I might send some of the ones not graded to NGC and see what happens.

Another thing to keep in mind is these coins have not been in coin circulation ie. moving from owner to owner. They have been in a cedar chest under blankets for over 50 years. They have not seen the light of day in 50 years.

Im not siding against you; I had a similar thing happen to several of my coins with NGC. They said two of my coins were cleaned when they obviously were not, that one had environmental damage which didn't, and that one was harshly cleaned which certainly was not harshly cleaned. They also graded this coin XF details, when it was obviously AU-53 or AU-55 details when the strike was taken into account. On the flip side, a few were overgraded in my opinion (or 'market graded'), and one that was blatantly cleaned wasn't noted as such because it was very low grade (Fair-2). Thankfully, the most expensive ones were over-graded, and not slabbed unfairly with non-existent problems.

But, it IS possible that the coins were cleaned in the distant past, even if they have been kept safe for 50 years. Even if you can't see hairlines, they may have been dipped instead. Cleaning was practiced for a very long time before people realized it was bad...I'd need better pics to determine definitively whether the half and 1833 quarter have been cleaned, as well as the gold. I would work on this before re-submitting them to save yourself the headache. If they really weren't cleaned, then you should resubmit them. It may take a few tries to get the grade you desire, but its worth it (especially on that 1833 quarter). Also remember that often they just look at the coins quickly because they have so many to grade, so this can result in inaccurate judgments sometimes. They are experts, but they grade quickly and thus are prone to error, plus they are human after all. The TPG game is largely arbitrary and hit or miss, and I prefer to use it for means of authentication and marketability rather than really believing that the TPG's are infallible. For my type set coins, I usually try to buy ANACS or ICG graded coins, because I can get a better coin for the same price due to people being biased against these two companies (or sometimes even a lower price!. I recently picked up an ANACS AU-55 seated half for under $1000 that looks better than similarly PCGS/NGC graded coins that were selling for $1200-$1500+

Oh yeah also, awhile ago I had my PCI half eagle re-slabbed by NGC. It was originally in one of the old green label PCI holders, and obviously undergraded at MS-61. Yet NGC graded it MS-61 anyway, when I've seen MS-62's and even 63's that look worse than it. If not for a few minor hits in the focal areas, it would grade very high (64), but the hits limit it to 63 or at worst a 62++ (but market graded it should have easily been MS-63) I was absolutely furious after wasting $50 in grading/insurance fees just to get the same grade. It's in my type album now though. There was also a thread here where someone re-submitted (making the mistake of cracking it out first) a very expensive gold dollar (worth about $2800) graded MS-63 in hope of getting an MS-64, as it was a very clean coin. It was returned MS-61! The price difference was something like $1500 or $2000.


FINALLY (enough of this long rant, lol), many times the TPG graders are not required to be experts in certain series, so they will mess up the grades sometimes and not take into account wear differences, strike, etc. An obvious example of this is the numerous number of draped bust coins (particularly quarters, dimes, and Half Dimes) graded FA-2 or even PO-1 when they have obvious claims to an AG-3 grade, sometimes close to G-4 (usually with the FA-2's, they tend to be more accurate with the PO-1 coins). So yeah, I suggest you try to carefully make sure they really are not cleaned (it can be hard to tell sometimes), then play the resubmitting game if you're interested in selling. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother.


-Brian

Hello again Ken. Thanks for the update.

I found out that PCGS is not slabbing genuine coins that are submitted under "Secure Plus". If it were me, I'd submit using the regular service and then the "Genuine" coins would at least get put in a holder.

Best of Luck!

Update. Today's deliver had the Genuine coin holdered. The only ones that weren't were the PVC ones; because, you can resubmit them. So, now I'm confused. Which isn't hard to do.

Thanks for the advise. I was thinking about going the NGC/NCS route. When I talked to them I really didn't get a clear answer on how it worked. They said they charged 1%-5% of the coins value depending on the work needed. But, when I asked about the grading a didn't get a clear answer. My basic question was if the coin doesn't grade how is the value of the coin determined. As you know, grading is every thing. Any experience with them? Let me know.
The PVC coins are the same if not better. They are early commemoratives and the ones graded have been coming back as 65's and up. I have a lot more to go. I was going to just have them graded by one of the auction houses and post them for sale with them.
Thanks.

I am certainly not an expert, but I do have a small 20x V 25x microscope (new two weeks ago) and my world was rocked when I looked at what I thought was my best coin. I joined PCGS for a similar reason, grade my coins to take the guess work out of grading for my heirs. The more I read here, the more discouraged I become. Last week, I bought a stereo microscope that will allow me to inspect coins at 40x just so I don't send off junk. Before I send coins out, I want to see what the experts will see. Lets see....how much does and electron microscope go for these days?

Re: wheatguy's post, I'd find it odd if PCGS doen't use magnification for very high grade MS coins, as their standards specifically refer to marks that are "only visible under magnification." What gives?

If cleaning was standard practice a long time ago, the ANACS approach of grading the coin and noting it as having been cleaned appears to make more sense.

I've looked at many high MS grade (MS63+) PCGS and NGC coins on places like ebay lately while doing research to list some pieces for a friend, and have not been impressed with the apparent consistency. It seems one could just mix the best 25% of the MS67s with the MS68s, play "eenie, meenie, miney, moe," and assign MS68 to every 10th one, and the results would be no less consistent, for all I can tell.

But then, the pics might not accurately represent how the pieces look up close and personal, so to speak. At least I hope not.