Ebay Coin Seller Of Cleaned Coins Sandbagging Other Sellers

A reason why I don't do ebay. But, unless you can prove that this comment by this seller has directly affected pricing on ebay, and hurt your selling on the site, you shouldn't have much of a case. And you just started down the road to defamation of a fellow seller (in the hopes of limiting competition?). I find it hard to believe that this falls under "hateful/profane" content policy. When was the last time you pulled a pristine example of a circulating coin out of your pocket? He basically states the coin is cleaned (whether he admits to doing the cleaning is really irrelevant). A knowledgeable buyer will know the difference anyway, so fleecing the uninformed is the only advantage to suppressing comments like his.

You misinterpreted my statement, I think. I don't think this guy is trying to fleece anyone. He implies that his coin is cleaned, and if you were to ask him that question, I would be willing to bet he would say it was cleaned. While his percentage (90%) may be off, how many sellers do you think list cleaned coins without ever mentioning the word "Cleaned". I think this guy may be doing the uninformed a favor by making them think about the condion of the next coin they think about purchasing.




No, but I have bought a few things from ebay. It was things like shill bidding, inflated shipping costs, and high starting bids that turned me off the site. I don't believe the statement is totally false. For me (as a seller) it would be "if the shoe fits...". If it didn't apply, I wouldn't worry about it. The informed buyer will know what he/she's looking at. So my question to you is, what market are targeting, the serious collector, or the spontaneous, uninformed buyer?




I think I answered this above. But to reiterate, if I was an honest seller, no, this statement would not rile me at all.




Again, see above.




What evidence do you have to back up this statement? Has sales or prices fallen dramatically because of this statement? You're going to have a really hard time convincing me of that.




Not yet, but if the seller's sales are hurt because of your accusations, and you can't back up what you're saying, it's a good bet he may seek retaliatory action.




I rarely pull three year old coins out my pocket that could be described as in uncirculated condition, let alone 30 year old coins. Again, he is referring to coins "in circulation". He is not talking about MS slapped examples. Like I said, 90% may not be an accurate figure, but I bet it's more than you think. Your statement about how this affects sales, at this point, is also unfounded, as you've shown nothing to to indicate that his statement has affected anyone's sales. Unless you can directly tie declines to this statement, you have effectively done the same thing...made an unfounded statement that benefits a seller at the expense of another.

For the record, I only use ebay now as a price guide. But I do attend quite a few live auctions. Auctions are always going to be a crap-shoot. I attend auctions because I look for bargains. If I wanted to simply pay the list price for an item, I'd buy it in a store. I have gotten some incredible deals at auctions, and I have seen common date silver coins go for way above value because someone brought a copy of The Red Book and used that as a starting price. I once saw common date Silver Eagles go for $45-50 because they were in 75 cent Harris snap-lock cases. A lot of factors affect the bidding at auction. You have to be willing to take your chances as a seller.

I can only say that 70% of the coins I looked at today were obviously cleaned; flat luster, shiny surfaces, grey appearance, no patina. The sellers at this antique mall made no statement as to if they had been cleaned but graded most of their coins at MS67. The other 30% were also generally graded MS65+ and there were marks all over the primary grading areas. At Least this ebay seller alluded to the fact that they may have been cleaned.

Every time I announce to a seller, "this coin's been cleaned", he always counters with, "not by me". What really amazes me that he'll never lower his price, though it's obviously been cleaned. Now that's the Rub!

Numismat, if you feel I showed you contempt, that's OK with me. I didn't; if I had chosen the course of contempt, it would have been abundantly clear even to a non-English reader. I feel (as the rest of your postings in this thread tend to bear out) that you're way oversensitive and overreacting to this seller's verbiage.

Especially considering the seller you are on ebay. You are one of my favorite World coin sellers on ebay. I peruse your stuff all the time. Your methods and your coins are above reproach, and you've nothing to fear from this one pathetic competitor. If you want to counteract him, don't about it here. Work some language into your auctions which directly contravene what he's saying.

It's much less a concern with World coins than US coins, but that guy is pretty close to correct regarding US issues. He has the timeframe off - I'd use 50 years instead of 20 - but older than that, it's a reasonable conclusion that at least 80% of "clean" US coins have been cleaned. Furthermore, I feel you're greatly overestimating the percentage of "respectable" sellers on ebay, even with World coins. You are not as common as you seem to think.

The statements of one random seller on ebay that I have never heard of do not affect my sales one iota. I couldn't care less what they state in their auctions, that is on them. My coins are judged solely on my description and my presentation. I am an ANA member and proudly display the ANA logo in all my auctions, I have to think that holds more sway over sellers than someone totally unrelated to me.

Dude, I have no idea what you just said here. You keep talking about this hurting sales, but you have yet to provide any examples that this statement has caused the ebay market to bottom out.




At what point do we become the policemen of coin buying? The information is out there (take this board, for instance). If the "newbie coin buyer" is uninformed, that's his fault. We can't force the information down anybody's throat. If this seller was trying to pass off counterfeit coins as real, that's one issue. If he's trying to pass cleaned coins off as uncleaned, that's an issue. He's done none of the above. His statement is neither illegal nor that much off the mark.




As for the first line, welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism. As for the rest, again, you have yet to show where this causes the collapse of the entire ebay system, or even personal loss to you.




It is. But what of your rantings about the subject? How has he infringed on anybody's' rights? What justice are you looking for? Again, the only thing I see is that you are offended by a statement in another seller's listing. You have produced no evidence that this did nothing more than get you on a soapbox. Who's been hurt (financially, not feelings) by his statement?




Did he actually mention you by name in the listing? How has your reputation (not your feelings) as "an ethical and honest coin seller" been hurt by this? I'm just having a hard time understanding why you feel so strongly about this. You have provided nothing to indicate you or anybody else has been "damaged" (not offended, which you obviously are) by this. Be thankful you don't sell cars. You can't use "ethical" and "car salesman" in the same sentence. (DISCLAIMER: I know there are honest car salesmen out there, but you all know the stereotype. I in no way intend to discredit used car salesmen).

Superdave - I got it dude. I too have those moments, more than I'd like to admit.

xshift - You are absolutely right. This seller was not intentionally trying to undermine anyone, it just sometimes comes across that way depending on who is reading the listing. Like I said in the previous post, I commend the seller for understanding why some other sellers may feel that way and adding a portion that makes it quite honest. He was able to look at it from other people's point of view and realized that he would feel similarly if the situation was reversed.
I just tend to get a little paranoid because I have dealt with many seemingly minor, almost irrelevant, things like this that became quite significant because nothing was done at the beginning.
Again, thanks for your thoughtful comments guys/gals!
The beauty of selling coins is that there is no real competition between sellers. I mean, how often will any two particular sellers have the same coin, in the same grade for sale at the same time? Seems to me like almost never.
So, I don't see any point for statements in item listings that speak of the community or the hobby as a whole (that's what forums are for ).

carmykle - I believe I speak for all of us when I thank you sincerely for your kind compliments! =)