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Replies: 21 / Views: 4,323 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
BTW I think someone awhile added up all the copper cents from 59-81 22 years 83-2010 27 years of zinc
and came up with 38% copper in circulation if none were removed and the other 62% zinc/copper
wich put the number right into a margin of 5% +/- what most hoarders find in public circulation when they sort coins
People dont realize but to make a dent in the copper cent population you would prob have to hoard a few trillion cents
I think what is happening is alot of people have never seen copper at $4 a lb just like they have not seen silver at 30$ a ounce. So its kinda a shock to the youngsters.That are buying silver and copper hoping silver will be 50$ a ounce and copper will be 8$ a lbs . Most hoarders my guess are born between 1963 ( 47 years old or younger )to current meaning they were 18 years older or younger and were to young to get in on the 79-80 silver rush when it happened
Most of the old timers prob 57-75+ were active duringthe silver crazy in 79-80 and know what goes up must come down and after the fall they will be able to get silver for 5-10$ a ounce and copper for its $.75 - 1.00 by the lbs if they want to and it will be like the metal crazy never happened . just like from 82-2008 20-25yr of cheap copper and silver with tiny fluctuations in price
My guess is in 2012-2014 precious metals will comeback to normal prices gold 500$ a ounce maybe lower , silver 10-15$ ounce maybe lower ,copper 1-2$ lb Then you have around 10-20 years to stock pile metals for next to nothing and cash in 20 years later
based on the past run ups of gold and silver. Copper just does what it always does gets to 4 a lb maybe this time 5 a lb then just falls flat agian.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
coppertop....who are most hoarders ? Those of us that share our info on here are at about 20%. And it would be one in every three to make 33% And who mentioned "mass hoarding " ? Once again...I ask "What is your motive ?" The only two reasons I can see for people to discourage are: They work for the mint or they are hoarders.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote: Converting an alloy back to elemental copper is not economically viable Sure it is, industrial smelters do it all the time. Of course, you will not get pure elemental copper(you don't get that from refining ore either) but it will be 99+%. Zinc has a boiling point of 907C while copper's boiling point is much higher at 2562C, heat the alloy at over 1100C and the copper will melt while the zinc boils off leaving only the copper. It is definitely not rocket science so there is no need to contact NASA 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4989 Posts |
Interesting... I thought this thread would provoke some good responses I think 1.50 might be the better figure since the 95/5 alloy is useful for bullet casings.
While technically possible, I think the energy inputs for boiling off the zinc would make elemental recovery impractical so much more likely it would be resold as that gilding metal alloy. I guess we don't need NASA though :)
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4989 Posts |
Note I am not discouraging hoarders quite the opposite a 1.50 cent per penny valuation means you make 50 cents, immediately, paper gain, for every buck of pennies found. If you are sitting at home unemployed pumping boxes into multiple sorting machines I think you are crushing minimum wage.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
Im not discouraging hoarders.I discouraging people paying above face for them and saving them
I did the same thing untill last year hoarded close to 15,000 60-70's copper cents when copper dropped/crashed from almost $4.00 to $1.10 back in 09 then suddenly this hoard was worth less then face in copper value. Then I relized how big of a waste it was ( atthat time )
history shows copper does not get much over 4$ a lb then drops very fast with in weeks If history showed different then I would have held for the long run being history usually repeats itself.
If anyone wants to sell copper cents and make a profit . Go for it I ENCOURAGE PROFIT ! Only thing I discourage is people paying more then face for coppr cents as a gamble thinking they will get rich .
I sorted out all the best copper from my hoard and only ending up keeping the nice S mint marks from 68-74 I feel those will bring a prem in the future.(20 - 30 yrs )
Fenton yes if someone is unemployed and does this DEF A WAY TO BE YOUR OWN BOSS and make more then min wage USING SORTING MACHINES would be the only way though. If someone can sort 150,000 cents and get 50,000 copper 200$ and make $100 a week heck its not alot of money but its still a $100 a week or $5200 a year. ( provided copper stays high for a year , it usually falls every year)
I just dont see it being a long term thing. As copper comes back down I can see people sitting around the garage with sorting machines collecting dust. If they decide to hoard 100,000 cents for the " next " rise in copper to 4$ a lb agian that is there choice. I can see people that hoarded these cents at 1.5 censt each fustrated and just spending the coins.
Personally I would sell at the 1.25 -1.50 cents per coin and cash in being you will not have to invest much becuase you keep turing the coins over and keeping profit using the profit to buy more coins, You also dont have to worry if copper falls you can always spend it and not loose anything. Just maybe the investment of the sorting machines.
If anyone wants to invest in copper just wait till it crash to $1.00 a lb as it always does then go buy a few 100 lbs cubes and stash them away being copper by the pound from scrap will only be $1.00 a lb and copper from pennies will be around $1.50 in pennies. I am serious about buying a few 100lbs of copper for my self at 1.00 a lb and waiting then selling for $3.00 a lb when copper gets $4.00+ agian ( $ scrap buyers usually pay %60-%70 of value for metals then resale ) this way there is no gamble about a ban being lifted on copper cents
The stats I posted are true you can not deney . Zinc/copper cents have been in production 27 years copper cents 22 years . the amount of copper/zinc cents in population is huge becuase they have been minted longer and more amounts. In another 10 years copper would be around 20% then 20years down to maybe 10-15% as the amount of zinc coins rise in circulation. So that could be one reason to save the nice ones for a fact they will be lesser in circulation
Dont get me wrong its a no lose brianer . YOU WILL MAKE A PROFIT SORTING COPPER AND SELLING IT AND NOT LOOSE IF YOU PAY FACE. BUT YOU CAN LOOSE IF YOU PAY ABOVE FACE FOR THE COPPER.
My suspect is that these people paying 1.25 -1.50 cents might have away of shipping these cents out of the country say to canada or mexico to a " cent collector "and what happens to them happens to them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
my stance is " take a profit if you can sell for more then face do so "
Your much better flipping 100,000's of copper cents and making .025-.05 cents profit over and over selling millions of cents ,and keeping the profit Then gambling by saving 100,000 for yourself many years waiting for a copper ban to be lifter that may never lift or copper bottoming out real low a long time and you made no profit some profit is better then no profit
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
Also maineman you are not "hoarding copper". you are simply seperating it and reselling it to hoarders. Big diff, you are making a profit and the hoarder/buyer may not.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
Coppertop...all of these discussions have been about pulling them out of circulation..not buying them. And if you know the history of copper will repeat itself, why did you dump yours when it fell to $1 ? You wrote an awful lot and did not answer the first 3 questions I asked above, any reason ? Fenton, yes a 50% return on your money is as good as it gets....even if you are sitting at home roll searching,retired, and loving it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
1.I dumped mine becuase I could by copper blocks for $1.00 a lb why save copper cents when it cost $1.50 a lb for copper? 2.At 1.00 a lb no one would pay above face for them 3.I can do it agian anytime I want when copper is $4 a lb like it is now I can get it from circulation at $1.50 in coins any time any where. 4 I WAS NOT AWARE PEOPLE WERE PAYING ABOVE FACE ON ebay FOR COPPER CENTS at 4$ a lb or I might have saved them MOTIVES 1 is to make people relize copper/silver/gold values fluctuate and hoarding COPPER is not a IMMEDIATE payoff and MAY NEVER BE. Buying and selling for above face is great nothing agianst its called reselling and has nothing to do with hoarding.Hoarders that never take a profit but keep hoarding seems unlogical based on the laws of copper coins 2 so you hoard and hoard ? when it is illegal to do anything reguard to melting cents 3 When and who do you sell this hoard to and for how much , being most hoarders never sell but end up dying with hoarded stuff, cars,coins,what they think is art .they end up dying and the children come in and sell it to get ride of it.also consider the melt ban may never lift and that they might die with this hoard if the dont sell it. So my complaint is not about pulling them from circulation , its hoarding them at this time paying above face for copper , They should be selling them like you are to others that are to lazy to pull them themsleves
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
also this 50% return on your money can fall over night to 0% doing alot of work and not making anything if copper falls. BUT you only lost your labor and time. If your retired and LIKE TO DO IT , then go for it Im just saying someone retired could stand at the Wal-mart front door one day a week and greet customers and make as much in one 8$ hour shift $64 It would take someone sorting a 60,000 to 80,000 cents to get 20,000 copper cents and selling them at at 1.25-1.50 to make the same amount of money 64$, then the hassel of getting more cents, getting rid of the old ones, gas driving around , gas to mail um and what ever cost. I dont want to sound like " its all about the money " But for me it just is not enough money for my time. But like I said in another thread if someone wants to do it more power to them. I just think at this time the time/profit/ratio is not high enough for it to be worth the time invested. If copper was 8$ a lb and you were getting 3-4 cents per coin . Then I think the time/profit ratio would be worth it
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4989 Posts |
I kind of wish I had a Great Great Grandfather who horded copper in the 1800's. Would be nice to find a few hundred boxes in an attic :) BOONDOGGLE
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1126 Posts |
Well after JP Morgan's recent maneuver to set up an exchange-traded fund in Copper so they can Manipulate the Copper Market Like they have the Gold and Silver markets for years there is no telling where Copper prices are going to be going in the future. Link to Story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-on-LME.html
Edited by stewart 12/04/2010 10:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
Yikes stwearts, All the big banks has the " bsat" bank secured asset trust , they were securities back with realestate mortgages that flopped
If this is true banks are gonna do this, this is another run up instead of mortages backed securities it will be metal backed securities
OH boy another bubble to burst But why should the banks care they take the investors money pay out a lil in the first few years as the metal goes up the ceo's vp's walk with billions in bonuses and the investor the shaft when it falls down
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Valued Member
United States
463 Posts |
obv its a bad move too buy copper pennies above face right now as you can still get them easily at face. When people use to save silver coins, some would say why and now look. Not saying copper can go much higher but you never know but still I would never buy above face as stated above
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