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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The DO pair is what really draws me, zeewool. I've never seen a crack move that way from a D on a 1921 Morgan. As big as it is, and as many 1921's as I've seen, I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the subsequent (lack of) life of the die. The straight-line crack through R*A is not unknown, but interesting nonetheless. OLLAR is hauntingly familiar - I'm sure I've seen a very similar crack shape, but can't put my finger on it. My hope is that I'll be able to attribute it based on known 1921-P data, which means (sob) microscopic examination of every star and letter. If I can attribute it to a known VAM, it should be a cinch to get a sub-VAM designation for it based on the size of the DO break. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Yeah, I noticed the width of that D-O 'break' and wondered with such a substantial break, why it does not extend into the devices?....I'm not convinced (from the pictures anyway), that a 'traditional' break is actually what that is.....The thought had crossed my mind that the die may have flaked along the north side of the crack, giving the impression of a break...... (But 'that' is what a break actually is though isn't it)?.....I guess that I am lacking in the knowledge of what the accepted differentiation is between crack and break......I had always considered the presence of displaced metal (or lack of it) to be the identifier.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
OK, I've taken the liberty of pruning the thread a little bit, in the interest of getting back to this coin. Nothing has been deleted; it's just....elsewhere. I can bring anything back to someplace else, should those who lost posts wish their points to be continued elsewhere. Half of what I took away actually had numismatic value; the other half was pretty much my fault.  Now, the coin. In-hand, the DO die break is far less prominent; I think a trick of lighting in the original shot exaggerated it. I was able to see it under my loupe, at a certain angle, which also made the break look far larger than it is. However, there's a lot more going on with the coin than just that break.... Here are my full-face images of the coin, presented for comment while I process the detail images. Check out the obverse:   |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Let's look at the right obverse rim, shall we?  First 3 right stars:   Yeah, check out between the two stars:  Crack through the cap:  Yes, it goes all the way through:  This obverse die has serious problems, with more to come. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
The other obverse rim. Note the two die cracks through the neck, circled:  Closer:   Here's where it starts getting interesting (down from the P, across the nose, is a postmint scratch):  This die is having problems:  Big problems.  LIBERTY:  Postmint? Planchet? Note the doubled B:  |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
OK, I have an attribution. VAM-39A.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2373 Posts |
Wow, That was fast. I was hoping you couldn't find one that matched. VW doesn't show much for that coin in the way of full exposure pics. I wonder if the obv normally is in such a cracked up state. You found several that I didn't see with a loope, especially the higher one on the neck and the also the cap. Is the intersection of the two cracks between the stars a common occurance on the 21 series? Great pics by the way. nlp
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I *knew* I'd seen that straight-line crack across the star before; it, along with the dot on the wing, are the only attributes shown on the VAMworld page for 39A. This is what infuriates me about VAMming. It took me 15 minutes to shoot 32 images of your coin, including resetting my camera for the detail pics. My camera, a low-end dSLR with an admittedly nice lens, is capable of enough resolution to illustrate all but the very tiniest star quadrupling, for a total cost of less than $1000. Most of what I posted here is scaled down to 25% or less - the LIBERTY pic is an indication of what it's capable of. Yet people who will cheerfully spend $1000 on an MS66 Morgan won't take the price of one coin to duplicate my efforts? With a camera as good as mine, about $50 in lighting and half an hour of face time, I can teach anyone to take pictures of this quality. It's not rocket science. It just burns me. How many VAMs out there have smoking-gun features you could see in an ebay pic? A whale of a lot more than we know about. The line between the IB on the obverse of your coin, or the stuff between the 6th and 7th stars, would enable attribution without ever seeing the reverse. If you knew to look. I'm gonna burn all this to disk and send it along with the coin, nlp. Will be back on the reverse details in moments - I got dragged away by the minor matter of feeding myself. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
OK, now the reverse.  Not as striking as we thought, but of interesting shape:   I suspect attribution would have been easier, but wear has erased the crack infringement on the star. Had this been clearer, there would be no doubt that it was a smoking-gun pickup for one VAM or another:   Surprisingly little going on here (STATES is doubled to the south):  Something going on here, though:   Here, too:   |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Whoa.....(is that the same coin?)......I cannot recall ever looking at the Photography Forum before (still haven't), and ignorantly looked upon it as a totally disinteresting forum.....I can certainly see the true virtue in such an art now (all of a sudden).
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
You can do magic with the right equipment, zeewool. My camera is two generations out of date, 12MP versus the 18MP currently available. My Macro lens is 100mm versus 180mm available. If I had a couple of G's to spend, I could double the size of the detail pics I presented here.
Imagine being able to see tripled/quadrupled stars with the same instrument with which you're taking huge, sharply-focused images of the full face. It's why I don't bother with a microscope. As it is, I could stitch together a picture of a Morgan, right now, that was 6000 pixels in diameter.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I'm still trying to get the lighting down LOL....with a 2004 camera!! its still not working.. its tuff and takes alot of work to get things right.....
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Well Gene, in a way, it may be a good thing (and rather convenient too) that I don't own any Morgans to photograph, (as I don't own a camera either)....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
its all good my friend.........one must put aside our pride........under our conditions....and let the buffalo chip's fall as they will....
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I willingly help anyone in the Photography Forum to do the best they can with the camera they've got. I authored a fairly definitive thread about getting the best from a point-and-shoot camera. The bottom line, though, is that you get what you pay for. The quality of your photographs will always increase in proportion to the quality of the hardware you throw at the task. My stuff does well enough for me; when it doesn't any more, I will find a way to throw better stuff at it. It means that much to me, more than the actual coins, if you must know.
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Posted 12/10/2010 3:12 pm
