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 Replies: 33 / Views: 4,211 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3283 Posts |
I have a bit of an issue with the old adage that your portfolio will double every 7 years, I wish.
It depends greatly on when you get in and in some cases when to are required to get out.
Ask the guys who retired in 2000 right after 50% of their savings disappeared overnight.
Or all the people who got involved with Madoff, unknowingly. Look at periods in the 70's and 2000's
I wish all the cash I put into etrade in the late 90's had gone into coins, at least I would have something to show for it.
For the most part I definitely agree with the premise of your discussion.
Coin collecting is a hobby, one that may pay off in the end. Hopefully I can give it to my kids though, instead of cashing out.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7629 Posts |
And I whole-heartedly agree with your arguement that portfolios don't always (actually less than frequently) double every seven years, but we all have to have some sort of benchmark to use in discussing such things as the unknown world of investing, and this is the most commonly accepted "rule". I would by no means want to pull the wool over the eyes of the unsuspecting into believing this is always the case. I shall change my line of discussion at this time to include the following:
Most growth vehicles provide an average annual rate of return that is equivalent to a long-term per-annum of ten percent. Given this model, a well-managed portfolio 'should' double in value every seven to ten years given rather stable market conditions and that the investor re-invest all the proceeds and dividends earned through the course of the portfolio.
The past couple of years have been very far from stable, but the coin market has taken the same hit...so "investing" in coins would have been no better than investing in the market when all the apples and oranges are dumped onto the table and compared. I've seen a number of people take a bath on $20K-$100K coins they bought three or four years ago and cannot reap a third of what they originally put into them. The rare coin market is taking a huge correction becuase of "hard times" caused by printing tons of currency with nothing to back it just so big government can hand it out to executives so they can make the American public believe they are 'safe' so they won't freak out and crash the market altogether.
The bail out did a lot to ruin the infrastructure of our economy, and we will be paying for it well into the future. Relating this to coins - well, the rare coin market will take longer than the average cycle to come back to full-steam. We are still operating this country on borrowed time and money...and from what it seems, brains.
The simple solution to the bail out would have been to take the $700 billion and divide it equally amongst every household in the country. That would have been all the stimulus the country needed, and its effects would have cascaded positively throughout the economy.
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Valued Member
United States
71 Posts |
The buy is the most important thing when investing in any collectible. If you purchase coins with the intention of holding onto them for investment purposes. then you must buy them right. Never pay what they are worth right now! If it isn't a deal move on and wait til you can purchase something that is.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3283 Posts |
Quote:
We are still operating this country on borrowed time and money...and from what it seems, brains.
The simple solution to the bail out would have been to take the $700 billion and divide it equally amongst every household in the country. That would have been all the stimulus the country needed, and its effects would have cascaded positively throughout the economy I could not agree more with the first statement. Borrow money from china so we can but their stuff. Oh and the second statement, how much would that mean for my family of four, 10 grand? Better than padding some bank executive's payroll. Those bank should have gone under, it's called capitalism. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
I had the figures at one time, but $700 billion would work out to about $100K for each tax-paying citizen in the country. So if you're married, $200K per household. I have no clue why they didn't go this way with it. Sure, about a fourth of the people receiving this incentive would simply blow it, but I am certain there's still a good half of the responsible citizens of our country who would do the right thing with it - and those who needed a car from GM would have gone to their local dealer and paid cash for it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
Fenton to the rescue! $700,000,000,000 / 138,000,000 tax payers =
$5,072 per tax payer.
Approximately 40% of that 700B was tax breaks. $400 and $800 rebates for families (paychecks got a tad bigger), $8000 first time home buyer tax credit, $250 tax credit for seniors, higher education tax credit, AMT stopgap measure (this was big I almost got caught by that...), expanded earned income tax credit, etc...
Also went to fund the federal unemployment backstop ("the 99'ers") and a huge bailout of state and local governments.
Infrastructure projects were a small portion of that perhaps 20%. So with only $1000 per tax payer of infrastructure projects it was kind of unrealistic to expect that would bring us full employment. It's really just a backstop against a depression it would have required 10 trillion to really fix the unemployment problem (i.e. World War II spending magnitude; took that to push out of the Great Depression)
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Valued Member
United States
253 Posts |
I'm a collector who hopes to pass on a preserved bit of history. To my children or grandchildren. Even if it may not be the best example of the date and mint. With hopes that they enjoy and continue to add and preserve for the next generation. High hopes I know
coggie
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
yeah, coppercoins, by your $100,000 math, we only have 7 million taxpayers in the US. I suspect $10,000 was a closer amount.
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Valued Member
India
265 Posts |
coin collecting is my hobby, once you get in to this hobby, there is no going back, you have to invest a sizable amount per month to keep your collection building. So everyone starts numismatics as a hobby, but end up coin graders, dealers, hoarders.only time will tell what you will become in the numismatic circle. Be honest and dont overestimate or underestimate any coin or person.
warm wishes.
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Valued Member
United States
374 Posts |
So all my semi keys and key date coins are a bad investment? They were purchased mostly 5 to 10 years ago. most of them at wholesale or dealer cost but not all of them . Also most graded by the big 3.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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So all my semi keys and key date coins are a bad investment? They were purchased mostly 5 to 10 years ago. most of them at wholesale or dealer cost but not all of them . Also most graded by the big 3. Possibly. It's also possible that if you got then at "dealer wholesale" they may not actually grade as high as what the labels say. After all if you bought them from a dealer, why would he sell retail at dealer wholesale if the coin actually makes the grade? Also what are the conditions? MS? as I have said often they are better percentage wise in the VF - AU grades. |
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Valued Member
United States
374 Posts |
I bought them off of a dealer friend who needed to turn inventory. He was getting them from major dealers and wholesalers were I live at. When he couldnt sell them at the fleamarket after a few weeks and he had to pay for them or return them.I sucked them up for his cost. No they are all problem free and grades on the slabs are correct. Most of them are vf-au coins which are more affordable. They have all gone up in value on paper. I dont plan on selling them anytime soon regardless.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
A few really long, dragged out stories here and it all started with investing in coins. One more of those things about getting old, you just don't really care about long term growth of anything anymore. I've been collecting coins for well over 60 years now and as to an investment, for what? Tomorrow? Since I don't plan on selling coins, makes little difference how much they are worth. Lost that idea about 40 or so years ago. As noted way, way back in the start of this post, this thing called coin collecting is a HOBBY. It may go up, may go down, may stay the same.
At one time I knew people that invested in Beanie Babies. My son, when he was REALLY young, showed me his sports cards that would someday be worth a fortune. Now laying in his basement rotting away.
I have several old cars in almost new condition and have been constantly asked what they are worth. I always say no idea since I'm not selling them, then they are worth only fun.
Making money on coins is like mnay other things. Some do and most don't. I'll never know nor care.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
I got an 1889-CC PCGS VF30 for $1,000 this year from a local shop. Confirmed the grade by posting it on here awhile back it is a super pretty coin.
Hence, it is possible to get good deals even through retail channels.
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New Member
United States
24 Posts |
I am going to throw my Two Cents in here: 1. My son, 9, is fascinated with coins. I am glad, because he now wants to go to the coin shop instead of the toy store, where if I drop a buck, he at least has something at the end of the day; 2. I look for deals that are a) decent coins, that are b) less than list. That is, I hope to walk into equity. 3. We all love Morgans, but whether it's a Morgan or an Eagle, I always say to myself--"It's still (almost) an ounce of silver". There's two parts to every coin: the value of it as silver, and the numismatic value. I rarely look at the numismatic value; I rely more heavily on the silver as a base point. I should get more daring, and when I know more about this, I will. BUT I HAVE ALSO LEARNED ONE ADDITIONAL LESSON: Every time I see someone come in to SELL a coin, they seem to get ripped. It's as if dealers prey on tough economic times. If I need money with stocks, or think the top has been reached, I hit the sell button and wait for the check. If you need money and sell your coins, is getting ripped a guarantee? |
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Posted 12/14/2010 12:09 pm
