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 Replies: 39 / Views: 11,920 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by birdman
What happen to the good old days. Before the slabbers, AU, MINT, OR PROOF. Lower grade by how much wear. What next PF 70.678? Top grader had one penny grade PF 70,then I see another slabber selling 63 PF 70?
Not PF70, it was an MS70 business strike. PF70 isn't that terribly rare since they get special handling, but MS70 is much more elusive. |
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Valued Member
United States
100 Posts |
Biokemist6 yes it was a MS-70,same story see alot of TPG grading coins MS68,MS69 that could not make AU.Coins with wear are not MINT STATE. Have seen coins grade MS were all the feathers are worn off the Eagles breast?by these TPG. |
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts |
Edited by mishap-coins
11/30/2006 2:19 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
MC, thanks for the links. While I have a general mistrust of any new coin grading company, at least ICS looks like they might have promise in terms of legitimacy. ICS gave out names of its graders, something most alphabet companies won't do. It remains to be seen how well these two companies will do - when we start seeing their slabs on ebay (may already be there), then we can start passing judgement. Also, it needs to be determined if the companies sell their own slabbed coins, something which requires a little detective work. If they do sell their own slabs, it may be considered a conflict of interest and they then can be discarded as serious entries into the grading game. I am very happy to help out any legal endeavors which will put a crimp in coin fraud operations. Thanks for the links! |
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts |
Morgan here is some coin slabs and ebayers selling quanities of them that I recently found while looking for coins on ebay. Some I have never heard of. It is interesting how fast new ones appear. Some may like you mention that in time will show some stability and trust and some may not. All these new slabs have made the market vulnerable to mistrust and skeptism about the whole process. It is a shame though as it has always been said that money is the root of all evil and like my grandmother said if they put caster oil in all the liquor in the world it would be a much _h_tier place to live. FFCC CCS Certified Silver Investments/geniescoins GEC / CSI/ Sullyscoins GGC /Gallery Grading Company /stampgum225 PNCS/Professional Numismatic Certification Services ANC/American Numismatic Company/marble2marble /web site=anccoin.com RCG/Rare Coins Grading/isell_em_cheap TGS/Tru Grade Service/ fedi1coins NNC/National Numismatic Certification/gravitystorm1 /qpt-cher UGS/Universal Grading Service/cwjohnson316 PCC Premier Certified Coins/onlineprofitsuperstore49 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Virtually all of them have no more value than the plastic into which they put the coins. There oughtta be a law against them, but there isn't although if they enter the grading field to defraud buyers, it then becomes illegal.
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New Member
United States
2 Posts |
If someone were to crack open a Morgan slab who is the best company to send it to?
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by sladet
If someone were to crack open a Morgan slab who is the best company to send it to?
Hi SD and welcome to the forum! Lotsa friendly folk here, all willing to share their experiences and expertise. There's only three top TPGs with numismatists' trust and reputation: ANACS http://www.anacs.com/ , NGC http://www.ngccoin.com/ , and PCGS http://www.pcgs.com/ . ICG is sometimes on the list. Any other slabbing company will make your Morgan only a raw coin covered in plastic or, in some instances will result in your Morgan bringing even less than if it were raw. Fred |
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
I am new to this forum.
I look at the input about TPGs and consistant complaints about a system that benifits the graders, and not the collector/consumer.
Might I ask what are all these collectors going to do besides show their dislike for a broken system ? Is ther any group who is going to advocate changes ? Can any group garner enough combined power to say no ? I do not know, but I hedge investments with gold. Not graded gold but from the mint in an original authorized container that clearly states where, when, and that it is legal and brought to a standard that is some of the best in the world. I use the U.S. mint first but do appreciate the art of several other mints in the world. Rather then the U.S. Mint taking on TPGs , the uncirculated gold and silver with the mint mark should be enough for many and that might trim the list.
Edited by Pepperoni
01/05/2007 6:14 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Hi Pepperoni and welcome to the forum! Plenty of experience represented in the membership and the willingness to share. You bring up good questions, but there is currently no numismatic group of enough size and influence to change the dominance and prevalence of the top third party grading services (the bazillion others may be disregarded). The system is just too well entrenched and those of us who deal in the coin market are just too dependent upon the top TPGs. Besides, it's not only the TPGs which benefit: those of us who buy and sell coins sight unseen (vis a vis ebay, Heritage, Superior, etc.) cannot rely on images alone (in my instance, the word is "distrust" since such images are often/usually altered or otherwise misrepresented). If we want some sort of guarantee that a coin is as presented, especially for buying, then there is currently no alternative to NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and ICG (again, any other slabs may be disregarded). Perhaps someday when someone comes up with a reliable and, eventually trusted machine/computer grading system, then the biggies might feel the pinch, but I don't think we're gonna see it anytime soon. Fred |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I'm glad you folks like that list in the link on the first post. It's my list. Jan sent it to the website owner without asking me and the site owner posted it. (The first 73) When I found out I agreed to update it and added the other 12, but they credited the email address I was using and not me. The list Becky posted was posted on the PCGS forum back in 2005 and listed 125. My current list is about 20 companies longer, and growing.
As for someone grading his own coins, no that doesn't make hime a grading service. But if he is willing to or accepts coins and grades them for someone else for a fee, then yes he IS a grading service. Many of the third tier services are dealers grading their own stock, but most of them will also accept outside submission. That makes them grading services.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
I'm glad you folks like that list in the link on the first post. It's my list. Jan sent it to the website owner without asking me and the site owner posted it. (The first 73) When I found out I agreed to update it and added the other 12, but they credited the email address I was using and not me. The list Becky posted was posted on the PCGS forum back in 2005 and listed 125. My current list is about 20 companies longer, and growing.
As for someone grading his own coins, no that doesn't make hime a grading service. But if he is willing to or accepts coins and grades them for someone else for a fee, then yes he IS a grading service. Many of the third tier services are dealers grading their own stock, but most of them will also accept outside submission. That makes them grading services.
Conder, your list took a lot of effort to research and produce and we deeply and sincerely appreciate it! You should have been recognized and attributed for the original and updated lists and, at least, we can so recognize you here. Thank you! Quickie questions: Have you been able to do follow-up on some of these alphabet slabbers in terms of longevity and purpose? I.e., how many started with their main raison d'etre to sell their own collections for maximum money, then decided to go into the slabbing business for others? This question is versus how many quit slabbing after they sold their collections? And how many who attempted to make it a TPG business actually lasted for more than a year or two (or more)? Fred |
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
MC, I agree with you that many sellers who offer slabbed coins in lots throw in a couple top TPG slabs to "sweeten the pot" with most of their slabs being non-tiered low quality encapsulations. Most coin sellers who play dumb are just attempting to fool the rookie buyers into thinking the sellers themselves are rookies. A quick glance at the sellers' feedback usually shows they've dealt with many, many coins and are most likely very experienced numismatists. Fred |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
quote:
Quickie questions: Have you been able to do follow-up on some of these alphabet slabbers in terms of longevity and purpose? I.e., how many started with their main raison d'etre to sell their own collections for maximum money, then decided to go into the slabbing business for others? This question is versus how many quit slabbing after they sold their collections? And how many who attempted to make it a TPG business actually lasted for more than a year or two (or more)?
The fourth tier slabbers are hard to trace or keep track of. Probably at least half to three quarters of them last no longer than a month or two. Often times they are already gone by the time they come to my attention. Some of them are even stillborn. One announced it was starting up and sold discount certificates for slabbing and then never opened (Rocky Mountain Grading Service although I suspect they did open briefly as North West Grading Service as they sold the same type of certificates but did produce some slabs.) I believe most of the fly-by-nights did so mainly to try to fool newbies but a few found some legs and became at least somewhat legitimate businesses. NNC started as a fly-by-night distributed by a firm that has been involved with three other FBN services, and while it doesn't have a great reputation they are still operating over three years later. Numistrust also started as a dealer just slabbing his own coins and they have lasted four years. SGS for five years. Those start ups that last more than a couple months tend to stick around for at least a year. If they make it past the second year they tend to last quite awhile. |
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Posted 11/27/2006 6:11 pm
