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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Actually I know your correct that there are numerous things we are not supposed to know ad places we should not go as commoners. As to access to prisons, that is one example of something completely true. Same with numerous other such places. However, I have been in every nulear power plant, all fossil fuel power stations and most prisons in the Illinois area for engineering purposes. However, I also realize that most people should not have access to those places for security reasons alone. but as to coins, I just can not accept that if a coin is made for as a US coin, it should be able to be owned by the people. Coins just do not fall into the same catagory as prisons, nuclear plants, fossil fuel power stations, steel mills, etc. Then again it isn't really anything to worry about because any coin made with a mintage of less than 100 I couldn't afford anyway.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
Can someone please put this into layman's terms? The way I interpret this law can't be right.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Can someone please put this into layman's terms? The way I interpret this law can't be right.
Interpretation: Your government is all powerful, and has stripped most of your rights as a free man from you (NO, try to do anything without a license or permit)and will put you in the pokey if you do not walk their line..... Simple enough? MM  PS: Gosh, this statement will probably get my name on the "do not fly" list.... Edited by morganman
11/08/2006 10:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by just carl
As usualy our government does something that I just can not understand. WHY would it ever be illigal to own anything that was made for the people, by the people and with the people's money. If we make it for us, we should be able to own it. I guess the only thing to do is to get a job with the Mint.
Well said, Carl. I also agree with the statements made by Morgan Fred with regard to certain installations, top secret stuff, etc. But COINS ? I don't think so. Unless the coin was illegally made (mint employee extracurricular activities) or never released or never intended for release, we should have the right to own it. The '33 Double Eagles were originally intended for release. The release was halted by the new law. That law is now irrelevant. I think (might be wrong here) that is was rescinded in the 1970's. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Can someone please put this into layman's terms? The way I interpret this law can't be right.
Not trying to be funny about this subject but putting this subject into layman's terminology is simple. You have to just read a book or see the movie called "1984" |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24165 Posts |
quote:
WHY would it ever be illegal to own anything that was made for the people, by the people and with the people's money.
In layman's terms... If a 1964 Peace dollar is in the public's hands it was stolen from the US government. Period.Therefore, the US government still owns them. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
most of the coins that are Illegal to own were never released to the public and were never meant to leave the mint, and the only way they are able to leave the mint was if someone pocketed them the same way someone would come in your house and pocket a coin you have. No matter how you look at it, it is stealing and it is illegal for the person that stole it to have possession of it, so therefore it is illegal for them to sell it, so these coins were stolen from the mint which means the mint is the rightful owners and it is illegal for anyone besides the mint (unless the mint releases them to an individual)to own no matter what. people get arrested just about every day for possession of stolen property and no matter if its a company or an individual that item will be confiscated by the police and the person (or company) is just out the money they spent on the item. With coins most people know what coins are illegal to own and they know the history behind them so if they buy it they know that there is a chance it will be confiscated and they are purchasing stolen property (same as a pawn shop dealer paying 150 bucks for a Rolex)
Edited to fix misspelled words
Edited by Bryan1315
11/09/2006 12:57 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Bryan131 of course your correct that if something is stolen that belonged to someone else, it is a crime. However, my feelings are that OUR Mint making coins with OUR tax money and if only for themselves, is just as erroneous. My opinion is that if such coins were to get out into the public, they should no longer be illigal since our government is making them for themselves with our money. It is a bit of a paradox of course. However, I find that such illigal ownership of some coins reminds me of the people that were and still are being thrown out of their houses by the government to make room for an O'Hare airport expansion project. Coins are just coins. I wonder if there would be so much controversy if people were to find out that the Beanie Babie company was holding out the most rarest of Beanie Babies.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Bryan, I understand what you are saying, BUT, the point is that the government makes what they want legal or illegal. For example, it is "illegal" to own a coin (we all know we talkin 1933 gold) that actually has been shown to have possibly been legally obtained. And lets not forget the one that "Royalty" magically owns legally. That would not have happened if the US Mint had not gotten half the booty from the sale.... Yet, our government makes it "legal" to steal by allowing oil companies to gouge us, and the SEC and the stock market is a joke. There are more crooks there than in all our prisons. It all boils down to "He who has the gold (no pun intended) makes the rules" And it don't matter if you choose Democrat or Republican, they are all a bunch of jokers. You got to be rich to get any kind of office in Washington today. And the rich ain't pullin' for us poor guys....you can bet on that. MM  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
I can't add to what Bryan so aptly stated. With only the exception of the single 1933 St Gaudens Double Eagle with a very convoluted history which made it legal and a very few other coins accidentally released into circulation, any coins which came into collectors' hands via illegal means are merely purloined property. Most of these coins were NOT minted for circulation. Just because the mint produced prototypes, experimental coins (the aluminum cents are good examples), pattern coins, and any other coins not intended for circulation does not mean the public has a right to them. I agree that once a coin gets into circulation or collectors' hands by accidental release by the Mint, it should not be recalled nor otherwise made illegal, but if a coin is stolen from the Mint, that's no different than any other theft.
Comparing the US Mint with the SEC, oil companies, and the stock market is getting way off the subject although the point is well taken. Coins are a lot simpler situation: they're either stolen or legally released albeit unintentionally with very few, if any shades of grey in-between, unlike insider trading or oil companies' windfall profits.
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
in that case the mint should have kept their mouths shut and just taken the coiins and destroyed them. No illegal coins, No legal problems.
As for making prototypes, what about pattern coins?
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Forum Dad
United States
24165 Posts |
quote:
in that case the mint should have kept their mouths shut and just taken the coiins and destroyed them.
You can't blame the crime on the victim, it just doesn't work.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by just carl
OUR Mint making coins with OUR tax money
Actually, the Mint receives no tax revenue- it is entirely self sufficient. The US Mint is just about the only government entity that turns a profit (last year ~$700 million)- through seignorage and numismatic sales profits. After expenses, the Mint profit is returned to the Treasury and pumped back into general revenue. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by biokemist6
quote:
Originally posted by just carl
OUR Mint making coins with OUR tax money
Actually, the Mint receives no tax revenue- it is entirely self sufficient. The US Mint is just about the only government entity that turns a profit (last year ~$700 million)- through seignorage and numismatic sales profits. After expenses, the Mint profit is returned to the Treasury and pumped back into general revenue.
However, there is a slight bit, very slight bit, of expendarues not listed in the Mints profit margin. Please check on such things as Utility bills for the Mints offices and other structiures. Now there is the maintenance of said sturctures such as window cleaning, furnace maintenance, landscaping, etc. Of course someone pays for the movement of the currency and coins in trucks, cars, trains, boats, planes. The delivery of metals used in the production of coins. Then there is the small item of salaries for all such employees, their medical and life insurance premiums. What about office equipment such as desks, filing cabinets, paper, pens, chairs, etc. The list goes on and on and on. If YOU own a factory that produced, say brooms, YOU would be the one paying for all of the above mentioned items and a lot more. ALL profits from your broom sales would go for such expendatures. Not just for the wood and brissels at the end of the broom. Please check on WHO is responsible for these expendatures with the Mint. Just my opinion of course. |
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts |
My opinion is we will never really know the exact amount of all the illegal coins that are out there among us! Some of them have even been encapsulated by grading services, unknown to them at the time.Some have since been cracked out of their holders and destroyed. I really do not think the amount will ever be truly counted. The amount of money made in that illegal buisness is alot higher than most will ever know. There is always some one who wishes they had a 10,000 pound press that would just make clipped planchets. Is amazing that any truly deformed coin found today on any 2006 coins will most likely be 99% that it come from an insider of the U S Mint or one of the distrubution centers or counterfieted.. And what does one do with a coin they happen to find that is an illegal coin ? Here is a couple of sites to read about illegal coins ! http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article1673.chtmlhttp://www.secretservice.gov/money_coins.shtmlNot to mention all the illegal paper monies. Edited by mishap-coins
11/09/2006 12:12 pm
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Posted 11/07/2006 11:52 pm
