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Pillar of the Community
United States
1703 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Morgan Fred
Terry, sounds like we had the same guy do the X-carving. This X was so fine it might have been done with a needle. It's almost impossible to see the X in hand. I only noticed it as I was getting ready to send it to NGC when it caught the light just right. I put it under my 10X pocket lens and it sprung right out at me. I had already notified the seller that I thought it might have been dipped at some time long ago, but wasn't sure enough to warrant sending the coin back, was gonna take a chance that NGC might see things differently. Sure enough, once they saw that X (and as grading experts, they couldn't miss it), they would have seen it differently alright, right into a body bag. And as soon as I noticed it, that was that and back to the seller it went. He didn't sound too happy in his response to my email, even a little disbelieving, but if he's as honest as I think he is (and 100% feedback), he'll accept it as reality. Meantime, according to the Signature Confirmation, he received it back two days ago and I'm still waiting for my PayPal payment. But, he was also slow to send it, so I can be a little patient.
Hope it wasen't the same dealer...lol.Mine also had 100% posi feedback. Mine was a little slow paying back also.He said he sent a check but It didn't show up in two weeks.I asked why he sent a check when I paid with paypal,he should refund with paypal. He refunded with paypal finally. He also said he never saw the X on the coin when he sold it but you couldn't miss it if you took the time to go over it.Sometimes I think they think you might miss the flaws until its to late,but that probably just the cynic in me.  Oh,and the check showed up in three weeks. I returned it with a big X on it. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
My seller was from Houston, TX. If yours was also, we may have something here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1703 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Morgan Fred
My seller was from Houston, TX. If yours was also, we may have something here.
 Mine was TX also but I don't remember which city.I will have to go back and look. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Here's a good example of NNC at work, an offering by the slabber himself for an "XF-45" 1879-CC Morgan. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...140064530613Other than the images being so poor that it's difficult to make an assessment of the coin, it's likely it wouldn't grade out at more than VF-30 or -35 at a real TPG (ANACS, NGC, PCGS). Worse, it appears the Morgan has been cleaned. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1703 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Morgan Fred
Here's a good example of NNC at work, an offering by the slabber himself for an "XF-45" 1879-CC Morgan. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...140064530613
Other than the images being so poor that it's difficult to make an assessment of the coin, it's likely it wouldn't grade out at more than VF-30 or -35 at a real TPG (ANACS, NGC, PCGS). Worse, it appears the Morgan has been cleaned.
Gezzz, give the guy a break Fred.He only has 94 negitives.  Sure looks cleaned to me. |
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Valued Member
 United States
68 Posts |
Geez Fred that coin isn't even close to XF, especially for a Morgan. I agree with your picture and grade judgement. Excellent observation!
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Valued Member
United States
68 Posts |
This would probably be another example of over grading by NNC. You guys being the experienced ones will have to tell me for sure. This coin looks to me like it has been cleaned. That being said the grading company never mentions it on their packaging. That in itself I find misleading. Oh, here is the web site: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...WA:IT&ih=014 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by kodji
This would probably be another example of over grading by NNC. You guys being the experienced ones will have to tell me for sure. This coin looks to me like it has been cleaned. That being said the grading company never mentions it on their packaging. That in itself I find misleading. Oh, here is the web site: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...WA:IT&ih=014
AU55 with some luster remaining. |
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts |
This person sure has a batch of these NNC slabbed coins. This ebayer does atleast offer a 5 day return ! They are not short on bidders either. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsimplycoinsQ21I do see NNC on their site a disclaimer which reads as follows; Subjectivity Of Grading Limitation of Liability for Grading: All parties understand and agree that the professional opinion required in grading coins involves NNC's subjective judgment. Consequently, National Numismatic Certification, LLC. makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer for the grade assigned by NNC to any coin.Which makes me ask why grade and slab them ? Leave it up to others that possibly can. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by mishap-coins
This person sure has a batch of these NNC slabbed coins.
This ebayer does atleast offer a 5 day return ! They are not short on bidders either.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsimplycoinsQ21
I do see NNC on their site a disclaimer which reads as follows;
Subjectivity Of Grading
Limitation of Liability for Grading: All parties understand and agree that the professional opinion required in grading coins involves NNC's subjective judgment. Consequently, National Numismatic Certification, LLC. makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer for the grade assigned by NNC to any coin.
Translated, this means "We intentionally overgrade coins by three to ten points and if you believe anything on the slab, you are the kind of sucker I am looking for." quote:
Which makes me ask why grade and slab them ? Leave it up to others that possibly can.
Most of these bottom-rated grading companies are attempts to defraud unsuspecting buyers. There's a few honest exceptions, but NNC isn't one of them. Fred |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
Fred's on the Prowl again Good JOB. You are so well informed . And I appreciate that.
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Valued Member
United States
68 Posts |
Translated, this means "We intentionally overgrade coins by three to ten points and if you believe anything on the slab, you are the kind of sucker I am looking for."
So true! Maybe they slab them to give the buyer a free pretty plastic case lol.
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Member
United States
3242 Posts |
I know that they not in the top 3! I got a nnc off of ebay about 6mo ago it was graded ms-68 it was not a true grade for that coin I will never buy 1 of them again, I can grade my coin and put in capsule better that them!!! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
NNC has been around since 2002 and frankly they are one of the best of the third tier services. They were originally based in Michigan and I believe are now located in Florida (With most of the other low class services, and shady dealers. Frankly with all the scum down their I'm surprised NGC moved to FL. I would think they would be worried that they would lose reputation from the proximity to the other bottom feeders.) quote:
I do see NNC on their site a disclaimer which reads as follows;
Subjectivity Of Grading
Limitation of Liability for Grading: All parties understand and agree that the professional opinion required in grading coins involves NNC's subjective judgment. Consequently, National Numismatic Certification, LLC. makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer for the grade assigned by NNC to any coin.
Which makes me ask why grade and slab them ? Leave it up to others that possibly can
Actually you will find that same disclaimer or one very similar to it on most all of the third tier services. I have no real problem with it. Grading IS subjective and you can't guarantee anyone else will agree with the grade you assign. Usually though the third tiers DO guarantee authenticity. This is in interesting contrast to the major firms which DO guarantee their grading (But only compared to their own second opinion.) but do not guarantee, in writing, the authenticity of the coins. (After many years of griping and being a public annoyance to them over this matter by several people, PCGS did finally agree to change their written guarantee to include authenticity. Since then those of us who caused the most fuss have been kicked off the PCGS forum and nothing has been done about the guarantee.) Edited by Conder101
01/27/2007 5:55 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Condor, we had established that NNC is one of many bottom-tiered slabbers which sell their own coins, but I can't find the thread at the moment. The argument of subjectivity of grading is used too often by self-slabbers and unrated TPGs as a hedge and crutch against their overgraded coins. All four of the top TPGs ANACS, NGC, ICG, and PCGS guarantee their grades whereas the others will not. Yes, coin grading is subjective, but not all that subjective since as a general rule, the same coin submitted to the top four will usually grade within one, sometimes two grades of each other. In comparison, there is as much as eleven grade point differences between, say NNC, NTC, or PGS and the top TPGs. I have never seen a non-rated TPG slab a coin with a lower grade than the same coin submitted to one of the top four. And welcome back, Condor. Happy to see you back in the action! Fred |
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Posted 12/12/2006 08:35 am
