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A Fake Sovereign (Has Pictures Now)

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sfwusc's Avatar
United States
615 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2009  1:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add sfwusc to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am pretty sure I have a fake sovereign made of brass. Would the fake have any value? It was included in a lot I got (with it being listed as a fake). I haven't weighted it out...it is real, then I feel bad for the guy I bought it from (I bought it maybe 5 years ago).

-SWUSC
Edited by sfwusc
02/12/2009 8:14 pm
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2009  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sfwusc- well, it depends on when it was made and for what purpose. There are many fake guineas which were contemporary copies of the nineteenth century that were produced to be used as gaming tokens. Those have a little value.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16827 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2009  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fake sovereigns could have many uses, from forging and uttering to card counters to cheap jewellery.

Apparently, it's a tradition in Greece for New Year's Day cakes to be topped with a British gold sovereign. For those families that can't afford a genuine sovereign, fake ones can be purchased. I even have one where King George's titles are thoughtfully translated into Greek letters!

We'll need to see pics to have a go at confirming it's fakeness.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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sfwusc's Avatar
United States
615 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2009  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfwusc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Image: A-Fake-Sovereign-Has-Pictures-Now img009.jpg
13.2 KB



Image: A-Fake-Sovereign-Has-Pictures-Now img008.jpg
13.14 KB

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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2009  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the pictures. That definitely looks like brass or bronze. It certainly does not seem to have been made as a gaming token. My best guess is that it was made as a novelty or as a contemporary counterfeit. What kind of perplexes me is that the details of the facial features (especially of the mustache) look even more detailed and sharper than that of real sovereigns.
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sfwusc's Avatar
United States
615 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2009  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfwusc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am 99% sure it is bronze/brass as it is kind of turning green :(

It does have good details... I wonder if it was made to cheat people when they were actually used as money?

-SWUSC
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16827 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2009  03:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The design isn't quite authentic; as Archraz implied, on genuine coins old Eddie 7 didn't have quite that much hair. Another giveaway is the beaded border on both sides - real sovereigns have denticles.

So it wasn't made to fool a numismatist, or anyone that looked at their coins closely (and most people would have looked at a gold coin closely if they were accepting it as money).

It's too "new" to be a card counter - Britain had laws banning imitation sovereigns made for that purpose by 1909. It could, of course, have been made outside Britain, like my Greek one.

Speaking of which, I dug it out of the album - here's a pic:

A-Fake-Sovereign-Has-Pictures-Now

The Greek text says "Memento from the New Year's Day Cake, 1958" (Basilopita, literally "St Basil's cake" or "royal cake"). The portrait is of British king George V, who was long gone by 1958.

It scans rather well, but it's actually brass.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2009  03:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The brass coin does not look modern, could be contemporary.
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2009  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jislizard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Sap, I have 2 of these tokens, 1 looks very similar to the 1958 token, but was made in 1957, the other one has Queen Victoria and the year 1956. If you Google Vasilopita (the Greeks seem to use V in place of B) you will find plenty of recipes for St Basil's Cake, traditionally eaten on New Year's Day. The cake is cut and slices are put aside for the Virgin Mary, Jesus and absent family members (and occasionally Goblins) and one for each family member present. Whoever finds the coin (which is hidden inside the cake in much the same way silver sixpences are hidden in English Christmas Puddings and other charms are hidden in King Cakes)gets good luck and the token. The Wikipaedia entry on King Cakes goes into the customs in quite a bit of detail.

Thanks for posting up the image Sap, I have been looking for confirmation that this is where the tokens are from and it is quite difficult finding any info.

Mark
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2009  08:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day & thanks all,
I am very fond of real sovs, and I find these "homages" almost as interesting.
The 1956 QV, and 1958 KG5 are certainly interesting.
When I got home, I'll dig out my personal favourite: a 1907 QE2 - young head, of course.
Peter
under the Golden Arches, Alice Springs
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turtleoverhead's Avatar
Australia
585 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2010  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add turtleoverhead to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a little coronation medallion with a similar design.


A-Fake-Sovereign-Has-Pictures-Now

A-Fake-Sovereign-Has-Pictures-Now
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