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Replies: 47 / Views: 4,935 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5845 Posts |
When it comes to things like buying stocks or real estate, I've always heard people advising against "panic selling" whenever there is a sharp drop in the market. Apparently, as soon as the market starts to plunge, people rush to sell whatever they own for fear that it will eventually be worthless and they don't want to get left holding the bag. But the advice I've always heard is that this is actually the worst time to sell and that panic sellers will regret it big time once the market eventually rebounds.
With the recent drop in PM prices, however, I am now hearing for the very first time advice against "panic buyers" who are, what... afraid that prices won't stay this low very long and are rushing to buy before prices go back up? Is this something new, or has there always been standard advice against panic buying when a market drops suddenly? Again, this whole notion of "panic buying" goes against everything I have ever heard before, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Or maybe it's unique to the PM market (perhaps with the thought that, unlike the stock market and real estate that always seems to eventually rebound, PMs could potentially sink and stay there for decades).
Any thoughts?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
616 Posts |
I think what you are talking about is the old axiom "Never try to catch a falling knife." I don't know if this is true or not but I have heard the difference between professional investors and amateurs is amateurs worry about making money professionals worry about losing it.
Edited by starbuxinvestor 05/18/2013 09:29 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts |
Back in April when there was a one day drop in the price of gold of about 10% there was definitely some panic buying going on. Here in the UK you had bunch of people who were apparently convinced that gold would never get that low again and rushed to the online dealers to buy some. There were so many customers at one point that the biggest online dealers refused to accept orders worth less than £500.
Things have calmed down now and there doesn't appear to be any panic buying going on, even though the price of gold is even lower now than it was in April. People seem to have accepted the fact that gold is actually on a downward trend (and has been since October 2012) and aren't buying it right now.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1200 Posts |
I think panic-based actions should be limited to things like getting away from a grenade with the pin and lever missing, getting away from a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse or getting out of a burning building. I don't think panic-based buying or selling is a valid component of a sound investment strategy or a good roadmap to long-term financial gain. As painful as it occasionally gets and as strong as the doubts occasionally get, I think cost averaging is the way to go for those who are into stacking on a long-term basis.
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
I think it is unique to the PM markets. Stocks and real estate are productive assets. With a stock you own a piece of a business that makes and sells a tangible product. You can live in a house or rent it to someone else. With productive assets you have metrics to judge the industry and see how your company or property stacks up against the competition. PM's are different because a PM like gold has no real practical use, you are simply betting on whether the rest of the world will be willing to pay more or less for it in the future.
There seems to be two schools of thought on PM's:
One group thinks the recent spike in PM prices are a sign of what is to come and prices will only go up from here. They see the decline in PM prices over the past couple of years as temporary. That is the group that rushes out to buy every time the price dips because they believe they are getting a deal. They also are advising others to buy now because you will never see these prices again.
The second group believes that the recent spike in PM prices is a reaction to the global recession and is only temporary. They see the decline over the past couple of years as proof that we are repeating the boom / bust cycle from the late 70's / Early 80's and can expect prices to continue to fall back to historical norms and then stagnate for decades. This group is advising others not to buy even as prices decline because the bust isn't over and prices are going to drop even farther.
We will see in time which group is right.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5845 Posts |
Thanks for the responses!
I guess my problem is that I just really don't see any element of "panic" when it comes to buying the dips the way there is frequently panic involved in selling during a price crash. If somebody has been waiting for prices to drop and then buys as soon as prices do finally drop, where's the panic? There might be a sense of urgency to strike while the iron is hot and not miss out on a good opportunity, but that's a far cry from panic.
As far as I can tell, the whole concept of "panic buying" was dreamed up by folks who are convinced that gold and silver will never rebound and is simply used as a disparaging term for those who disagree with that view.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
There are times when buying in a down market is a good thing. That applies a lot to stocks as a whole when the whole market is down, though it doesn't apply to every individual company. If you bought Wynn or Exxon when they bottomed out during the down market youre doing quite well, however if you bought MF Global or AIG on the way down youre seriously underwater especially for AIG which used to trade around 1100 and had several spots where a small recovery could have lead to dip buying. Theres just no rule that applies across the board of you should always but x when y happens. Everything has to be analyzed individually for why y is happening. If its just a general pullback in everything from a slumping economy then it could be a great time to buy while people are panic selling, if its a weakness being exposed its best to stay away. In the case of PMs there likely will be a time in the future where you could buy now and get your money back or more. The problem is that the price has been going down for a couple years now and in many ways repeating the trend of the 80s. If someone is willing to be underwater for years if not decades buying now from a face value standpoint would work out at some point. Overall though youd likely be down from lost interest and inflation where the money could have been better spent. In that aspect PMs are almost the opposite of stocks. Most companies have a fundamental value and can raise their stock prices by improving their performance. Even in bad economic times individual companies can thrive, Beer stocks are through the roof for example. Then of course in good times theyll likely benefit from that too. With PMs though theres really nothing that they can do themselves to increase their value. They rely on either an insane jewelry demand or people to be weary of the current economy and rely on bad circumstances to really explode in price. Thats a huge fundamental difference between the market and PMs which makes the PM price falls more of the market losing faith in the company going under rather than reacting to a bad quarter. The one time the buy when its down does apply to PMs would be in a booming economy when the prices have bottomed out like we saw in the early 2000s, especially if you start seeing wealth bubbles like an inflated housing market. That would be the time to load up with the hopes of making a large profit in a few years. Quote: I guess my problem is that I just really don't see any element of "panic" when it comes to buying the dips the way there is frequently panic involved in selling during a price crash. If somebody has been waiting for prices to drop and then buys as soon as prices do finally drop, where's the panic? The panic is well represented in what we saw a couple weeks ago where everything was sold out. You can say people were just waiting for the price to drop but in some ways it didnt. We see that it was panic buying and not just buying a dip from the fact that sellers started price gouging with premiums yet everything was still be snatched up. A 7 dollar spot drop led to a dollar or two price drop instead of the big drop we should have seen. Had the premiums been normal you could say it was buying a dip, but with the super high price gouging premiums it was clear people were panicking from the large spot change.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5845 Posts |
Quote: You can say people were just waiting for the price to drop but in some ways it didnt. We see that it was panic buying and not just buying a dip from the fact that sellers started price gouging with premiums yet everything was still be snatched up. A 7 dollar spot drop led to a dollar or two price drop instead of the big drop we should have seen. Had the premiums been normal you could say it was buying a dip, but with the super high price gouging premiums it was clear people were panicking from the large spot change. Again, I just don't see the element of panic here. At most, there were a lot of people who weren't paying attention to the high premiums and foolishly thinking they were getting a great deal when they were actually getting gouged instead. With panic selling, there's an obvious element of actual fear involved -- fear that prices will continue to drop and if you don't sell right away you will end up losing even more money than you have already lost. What's the fear when buying, however? Fear that you won't get as good of a bargain if you don't buy before prices go back up? Fear of a missed opportunity just doesn't seem to rise to the same level of "panic" as fear of losing one's house, retirement savings, etc., you know? I guess what I'm saying is that, while I agree there are certainly foolish people who rush to buy when prices dip without realizing that premiums have risen so high as to negate any good deals, it's really not the same as people who sell when prices dip because they are watching their life savings go down the drain and are hoping to get out before it's all gone. Foolish buying, sure. But panic buying? I don't think so. Again, I think that's just a term used to disparage those of us who don't agree that PMs are doomed to keep falling.
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
Foolish buying, panic buying, call it what you want. After the big drop on April 15th, every major online PM dealer was sold out despite huge premiums. I leave it to you to decide if those that rushed out to make those purchases were panicked or not, but it defies logic. Likewise, why aren't the dealers sold out now that PM's are at a new yearly low and premiums have declined? The difference is that from April 12 to April 15th silver dropped 14% and there was a mad rush by buyers of physical silver that were afraid they would miss the dip and prices would go back up if they didn't buy right away. You don't get that kind of rush when prices drop little by little, day after day.
Edited by JSH 05/18/2013 7:14 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: it's really not the same as people who sell when prices dip because they are watching their life savings go down the drain and are hoping to get out before it's all gone. Maybe it is the same people maybe it it isn't, I dont think it matters much what group of people it is only that it is happening. I would say though people who panic with a sale are probably likely to buy into something the other way around. Like JSH mentioned panic anything is kind of just a term to describe a rush to or from something. Whether it be fear of missing out on a deal, fear that we really are out of ASEs, whatever the motivation we say buying activity that just made no sense. Its like the people who camp out for a new Iphone where if they were patient they could get a better price and not have to deal with the lines. The rush into a good deal is always less than the rush out of something people think theyre losing money on. Missing a good deal may cost you money but its not a real loss, holding something to long is a real monetary loss. Frenzy buying, panic buying whatever you call it there was a rush into buying metals that wasnt sustained over time at a time when premiums should have kept people not acting on emotion from buying
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Only time I panic when buying PMs is when I hit the pay now button.. 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
746 Posts |
@ NC, and then as soon as you hit the Pay Now button, the price drops, right? 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Oh ya but that's part of the game, just like a new car, as soon as you sign those papers the value drops $3000 or so lol.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Well as we all know you have added much silver in the months leading up til now Barry, hypothetically speaking ofourse....If one was to make you an offer of 25 bucks per oz for your entire silver stash allowing you an exit at slight loss would you jump on it, or would you hold off and wait for profits down the road?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5845 Posts |
Quote: If one was to make you an offer of 25 bucks per oz for your entire silver stash allowing you an exit at slight loss would you jump on it, or would you hold off and wait for profits down the road? Not sure what the relevance is, but since I'm buying for the long term, of course I wouldn't sell for $25/ounce. Ask me again in 20 years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I was just curious if you still had the same belief in long term silver now as when you started. I think-"NO I would not sell currently" is the right choice as once you go all in (To me all in 1000 oz. or more shall we say) ya gotta let it ride and stick with the plan at hand....
Edited by Silverhawk74 05/19/2013 11:55 am
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Replies: 47 / Views: 4,935 |