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I Highly Recommend Proof Coins But Thats It

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Pillar of the Community

United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2013  9:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
going forward, if you are going to buy these dips, do this

1- ignore silver, its going to get smashed worst. Don't buy anything bullion silver. IF you must buy silver, only stick to proofs for now, I say concentrate on the US Mint, deal with them direct and cut out the dealers and their mark ups.

2- buy gold. But only buy gold if you can find it at spot or below. But better than that, buy proof gold or uncirculated gold coins, such as from the US Mint. Again, cut out the dealer.

There is no point in buying bullion going forward unless you don't have any. Otherwise, it is a suckers game. In fact, if I was in your guys shoes, the only way you could get me to even think about buying physical coins is if I hedged the buying with say options or selling short say gold and silver miners, as an example.

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traevin's Avatar
United States
1454 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2013  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always thoughts proofs were the way to go, Yup. But even most numismatic coins will be dragged down if silver and gold keep tumbling, which I'm hoping to see happen, myself.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2013  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I agree 100% with you. They will fall. But these coins will be the FIRST coins to recover price wise, and they will afford and provide a cushion, and the buyers will want these coins FIRST over bullion.

I have been following and charting coin prices proof versus bullion and while proofs/Numis have fallen, its been no where near as bad.

Valued Member
tornandfrayed75's Avatar
United States
447 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2013  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tornandfrayed75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Advice worth thinking about.
Valued Member
SDCrow's Avatar
United States
456 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  04:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SDCrow to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to provide a differing opinion, I'd just like to say that I approach this situation completely differently. Yup says that buying bullion is a waste of money because, in his expert opinion, metal prices will drop further from here. Fine. To me this implies, however, that all bullion is priced equally in the market. This is not true. This is what some people don't understand. Some bullion, that can be bought everyday for prices close to spot, can be sold much higher elsewhere.

For example, you might walk into a coin shop and find 1983 Engelhard Prospector rounds that sell for $2.50 over spot. See what those sell for on ebay or somewhere else. How about a mint sealed 2000 1/10 Chinese gold panda for $15 over spot. Maybe you'll luck into some Australian Lunar I series in the silver junk bin for $2 over spot. All of these things have happened to me in the last three months. Even though I bought these when silver was at $30+/oz and gold was at $1600, I'm still quite confident I can turn a profit on every one of these. In fact, I sold the gold panda for a 100% profit after the drop. . . I'm not trying to brag or boast, I just wanted to share a few opportunities that I've come across.

Even if you don't have a stellar local coin shop, you can find other places that offer great buys (like the dreaded ebay). Probably 1/3 of what I own came from ebay. Almost all of it was things that I valued at least 25% more than the price I paid. I do this by finding things that aren't categorized correctly, priced 'Buy It Now' at a low price, spelled wrong, etc. The point is, you need to recognize an opportunity when it presents itself. These opportunities are more common than you might think. Of course this means my dollar cost average will be a little higher than those who buy dirt cheap generic (or paper). However, my stack doubles as a nice collection which is half (ok, more than half) the fun.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to offer a different perspective. I'll leave the proofs be and stick with bullion, as it's worked out quite nicely for me so far, even with the price decline. In the end all I'm trying to say is, check this stuff out for yourself and do your own due diligence. Also, please be careful taking advice from someone telling you what to do.
Edited by SDCrow
05/20/2013 04:17 am
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  04:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The point is, you need to recognize an opportunity when it presents itself.


I agree with both of you. I think yup is right that bullion is the riskiest right now, but that assumption is based off of paying market prices. Anytime you see something you know you can flip for more or very undervalued thats a good buy. If I could buy cull nickles for 3 or 4 cents Id go to the bank if I had to to buy everyone of them.

Completely agree too that ebay is a great hunting ground, I cant think of anywhere else that brings so many different coins to one place besides maybe a national coin show
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  04:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Buying Proof silver coins CAN be a good investment IFyou know which ones to buy
It is NO good whatsoever thinking that silver is turning to mud and simply buy any silver proof coin instead of bullion.
You will need to do your homework and have a reasonable grasp of numismatics to at least break even buying Proof coins.
Most of the silver proofs I have are 30-40% up on their issue price, which is a lot better than bullion which has lost more than 50% of its value in the last 2 years.
I am most certainly not advising anyone to lash out and buy a heap of proofs, make your own decision but please do your homework first.
Anyway an album or 3 full of great designed silver proofs looks far better than a few lumps of silver in bars.
Just my opinion each to their own
There is NOTHING nicer than picking up an album the weighs in at over 5kg (that's about all they can hold before they fall to bits ) and thinking "You little ripper I own these)
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bekiz's Avatar
Japan
666 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bekiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm still buying silver below the spot ...
or completing my collection of kookas, lunars, pandas ...

still trying to get some gold and silver as I don't know how much is enough ... don't have a crystal ball, and cannot outsmart all those who trade when no one can, and who can dump tiny amount of paper in order to drive prices 10% in any direction.



so, how much of physical silver and gold position do you consider as a core (not for trade)?
Edited by bekiz
05/20/2013 06:46 am
Valued Member
Spikey Norman's Avatar
Ireland
131 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spikey Norman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whilst there's a place for proofs in any collection I personally think it would be an immensely boring hobby if one were to limit oneself to just those. Some of us like a little history with many of our coins be they gold, silver, copper, brass, zinc etc.

This is a coin community with forums kindly provided by those that love this hobby for the benefit of those that also love this hobby - it's not an investment site or a trading site or a site dedicated to purely stackers of precious metals. I think you fail to understand this.

Norm
Pillar of the Community
Northerncoins's Avatar
Canada
2019 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Northerncoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I buy both but on hold for PMs until price stabilizes a bit.

I have 3 of these coming this week from the mint. You still might be able to get one from them if you call but last I heard they were sold out.Some still for sale on the secondary market here and there.

A first ! $100 for $100 Bison silver coin.

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/100-f....UZo2DBdJNcw

You can go here in on CC in another thread to see what people are saying about them.

https://goccf.com/t/148324
Edited by Northerncoins
05/20/2013 10:59 am
Pillar of the Community
traevin's Avatar
United States
1454 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is a coin community with forums kindly provided by those that love this hobby for the benefit of those that also love this hobby - it's not an investment site or a trading site or a site dedicated to purely stackers of precious metals. I think you fail to understand this.


I don't think they mind if you do a little of both. Did some actual moderator tell you otherwise? Again, if you don't like the topic, you don't have have to read the thread. I think you fail to understand this.
Valued Member
Spikey Norman's Avatar
Ireland
131 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spikey Norman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't think they mind if you do a little of both. Did some actual moderator tell you otherwise? Again, if you don't like the topic, you don't have have to read the thread. I think you fail to understand this


Nope, no-one told me anything, just my opinion. I'm sure you can understand that.

Norm
Edited by Spikey Norman
05/20/2013 11:27 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey I like everyone's feed back thus far and everyone makes good points.

I agree, you have to know WHAT you are buying proof wise as well, because some proof coins are doing zippo.

I say, buy quality over quantity at this stage tho so you have some sort of cushion.

Lot of great points in this thread that I Would like to address and expand on but I dont have the time right now.
Valued Member
Spikey Norman's Avatar
Ireland
131 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spikey Norman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ignore the latter half of my response, quite rightly it has been pointed out that my personal opinion of what these forums should be for may well differ from what they actually are.

Norm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well no I mean, I think its important that everyone has opinion. You might be wrong or right.

However, I think whats getting lost is perhaps, because most have a bias towards silver and gold on a coin forum, I am not going to see a lot of people agreeing with me, and its going to get them upset that someone is vocal and digs in.

But you have to understand that I am NOT against PMs. Shoot I really love gold and silver myself. Nevertheless, I cant just say "yea keep buying all the time even as the price goes lower" when its clear whats happening.

And I really think at this stage, you gotta buy good quality stuff over quantity.

As an example,,, months and months ago a lot of folks were busy sheets of Pandas. I remember folks talking here and buying them around 1300ish/1200ish a sheet and higher. Look on ebay .... sheets of 2013 pandas have dropped to 900ish area.

would you really want to take your hard earned cash and buy the sheet of pandas, and then watch them go 300 dollars less? I dont know of many folks who like buying high, thinking they got a good deal and it ends up less.

Sooooo I really think at this stage, one should be going for quality over quantity.
Valued Member
Spikey Norman's Avatar
Ireland
131 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2013  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spikey Norman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think you are totally against PM's but I do wish you would stop labelling those that might disagree with the way you present something as being biased toward them.

Lower prices for Au/Ag/Pt mean I generally don't have to pay as much for coins that contain those metals that take my eye, I'm more than happy with that.

I'm also more than happy with what I've paid for those I already own - if it were solely about making a buck for me I'd have sold those that I picked up when Au was in the low hundreds and Ag sub-ten at much higher prices already .... I bought the coin not the metal.

As for quality over quantity I personally wouldn't disagree with that in general but quality does not just mean proofs imo. Some coins just sing to an individual and if the price is affordable and fair why not buy it .... if I lose a few bucks further down the line that's more than compensated for by my having had the enjoyment of owning the coin for however long it's in my possession. Do I want to lose money on any coin .... of course not, I'm not completely crazy or rich enough to not care, but I'm also not afraid of that possibility/eventuality with a coin I like enough to want to own.

Norm
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