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 Replies: 30 / Views: 3,224 |
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
Yup, I remember it wasn't that long ago that you were recommending people buy quality over quantity by buying sheets of pandas. I'm sorry, but to me it comes off as hypocritical to now talk about others buying this as being a bad investment without pointing out this fact. Of course no one wants to see their investment drop in price. Having said that, that doesn't mean those who do invest in gold/silver do not welcome lower prices. Also, it doesn't help the discussion for you to dismiss anyone that disagrees with you as being biased. You aren't the only person who can be objective. A difference in strategy could be just that.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
The old pandas would be quality vs quantity in terms of something with a significant premium. Once they raised the mintage though they pretty much destroyed that. The dismissive part is definitely a fair criticism which he knows
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
I guess it all boils down to what you consider a significant premium. BB, I know you and I have already had this discussion to some extent, but even raw 2012 pandas are already selling for about $15 over spot regularly on ebay even with a mintage of 8 million. I think we both agree the premium on these will end up somewhere between the price for eagles and older pandas. You can use that point to say it's destroying the premium, and I can use the point to say the premium is still significant enough to make these worthwhile. So, agree to disagree I guess. . . I would expect the premiums for the 2013s to rise just as the 2012s have once they sell out from the online dealers provided there isn't some huge mintage spike from 8 million that I'm not aware of. Will it be enough to recoup all the losses if you bought these at $30+ and the price stays in the low $20s? Probably not. At least not right away, but it will certainly be better than if you had bought generic rounds or SLV. Edited by SDCrow
05/20/2013 4:30 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Thats fair to say the new ones are kind of in that no mans semi-numismatic land. Theres certainly no doubt they provide more protection than the generic rounds and the paper market since their value isn't entirely based on spot. Im personally skeptical of the staying power of the new ones premiums since 8 million really isn't rare and its not like there could be 10 million people doing sets with how low the older mintages are. As of now though they do provide more protection than true bullion rounds and if they keep that 15 premium are almost in the uncirculated ASE territory. I never considered the old ones bullion personally, the britianicas I didnt see as bullion either. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
I think there is still the perception that the Pandas are a rarity... hence the premiums still exist.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
616 Posts |
I think the obverse of the Panda is near perfection and the unique design each year adds value and collectability imho. It is also an Asian centric coin and I believe that is an area that enjoys their PM.
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Pillar of the Community
Japan
666 Posts |
there is still the perception that the Pandas are a rarity.>>>
for some pandas it's not the perception but reality.
MCC are really good way to save ... I've been buying the coins for the last two years and the market locally has risen pretty good.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
bekiz... the older Pandas yes - the new Pandas - are not rare not even close to being rare, again it is a perception thing.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Doug thats exactly my skepticism of the new premium for the pandas. I'm wondering if that is where they really will stay or if thats still a carry over from the premium the older ones have that will diminish as we get more years of the high mintage
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Quote:
bekiz... the older Pandas yes - the new Pandas - are not rare not even close to being rare, again it is a perception thing. I think you are all presuming that all 8 million new pandas are coming to U.S. shores. Remember, up until a few years ago, Chinese Citizens were not allowed to own bullion. The low mintages of older Pandas did not generally stay in mainland China. While the mintages have increased 20 fold, you now have the Chinese govt. encouraging it's people to store their savings in physical gold and silver as a way of bolstering the Yuan, without spooking the PM markets by wholesale govt. buying and hoarding. So 8 mil is considerably higher than 100,000-500,000 mintages of years past, but you also have about 1.3 billion more people being encouraged to collect them. I think that this alone is going to keep the premiums high and the availability low. |
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
One other point that gets overlooked I think is that it's hard to compare pandas to standard bullion like eagles or maples because of how they are presented. Eagles and maples come shipped to you in a tube, rattling around, milk spots and all. All pandas have a proof-like finish and are individually put into capsules immediately. That coupled with the changing annual design, as starbux said, makes these more valuable than your standard issue eagle, even if they make millions of them. It's not as cut-and-dried as looking at the mintage.
Edited by SDCrow
05/21/2013 12:23 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Denco that could be the case. I dont think all 8 million are making it over here but there do seem to be a lot more coming over than in the past with most major dealers stocking them now and others
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
I think we see more because major dealers are seeking out more. The premiums on these are some of the highest of any popular bullion. It would only make sense that the dealers, big and small, seek out more higher premium coins. I remember the days when Pandas were relegated to the extraneous world bullion display and you could haggle with the coin shop over them. Nowadays they are in the premium silver display, when they even have any, and if you don't buy them at their price, the next guy will. Quote:
One other point that gets overlooked I think is that it's hard to compare pandas to standard bullion like eagles or maples because of how they are presented. Eagles and maples come shipped to you in a tube, rattling around, milk spots and all. All pandas have a proof-like finish and are individually put into capsules immediately. That coupled with the changing annual design, as starbux said, makes these more valuable than your standard issue eagle, even if they make millions of them. Kookaburras also meet that criteria. I have a 1990, first year of issue, in the original trapezoidal mint capsule, and they don't come anywhere near the 1990 Pandas Edited by denco7
05/21/2013 1:31 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
I definitely agree theyre being sought out more which leads me to question how long they can survive the premium display case premiums once people are accustomed to being able to find them everywhere. I agree theyll have a premium over ASEs and especially Maples with their quality, but I'm not sold they can keep going for almost doubt spot unless were talking about 10 dollar or less silver
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
I think more are making it here than just a trickle... and it is still more of a perception of rareness than a reality. If there are 8 million of them made - they aren't rare anymore. I agree they may still be pulling in a premium, because they are sought out more - but that is the reason for the premium. I can go buy a bunch of 2013 on ebay right now - if I want to pay $36. I do like the changing designs as well. |
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Replies: 30 / Views: 3,224 |
First Page
Posted 05/20/2013 1:56 pm
