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PCGS Has Damaged My Coin

 
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New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Poindexterxx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably the best advice but I couldn't sell it believing it has been cleaned or switched. Some day when people conclude everything has become a racket then maybe people will be more encouraged to combat his type of nefarious activity in every facet of our lives.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Poindexterxx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A photo of the reverse.

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Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2016  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just read this entire thread to see if I could "Garner" some information that will help me with a similar issue that I have with PCGS.
http://goccf.com/t/270645

I found it a little bit unsettling that some of the members here were "Bagging" Serial about his problem instead of trying to help him.
Yes the dealer that submitted his coin did screw up and value it at $15 which is all PCGS is legally bound to pay, But there was NO mention about refunding the grading fees and postage costs that serial also had to pay for this monumental stuff up by PCGS.
I understand that the submitting dealer came Good on this otherwise serial would have ended up with NO coin and a lousy 15 bucks instead.

I do think that PCGS had a "Moral" obligation to make this good and they could have handled this situation a lot better than they did.
All serial did was to engage a reputable dealer to submit his coin to a TPG that regards itself to be the best available and in this process his coin was damaged, What part of that makes any of this his fault?

So next time some poor sod gets screwed over by PCGS instead of offering up a bunch of legalise BS and Tuff Luck mate this is the way it is comments Put yourself in their shoes and think of how you would feel if it was happening to you instead
Valued Member
United States
371 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2016  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The OP should have sold it immediately and let the buyer submit for a refund as it was obviously over graded comparing what was in the slab to what was on it.

Also reading this through I want to make the following observations for what it's worth:

1. Based on their own photographs PCGS obviously damaged the coin. Whether it was done accidentally and the responsible person didn't notify his/her managers or it was unnoticed is irrelevant.

2. Based on the submission form and their published policies PCGS is not liable (legally) for the cost of the damage they caused but morally may be another issue.

3. A large part of PCGS's business is based on trust. I bought a coin off eBay the other day despite the bad pictures because I trust that PCGS graded it correctly. One of the reason to get coins certified is that the seller and buyer both have the coin independently verified by a trusted TPG. Actions like this damage that trust.

4. A little better communication on PCGS's part understanding they were dealing with a very irate customer would have gone a long way to keeping this from escalating to the level it did.

5. In this case, knowing the facts as presented here, that the coins owner used a submission service recommended by PCGS, that the grade they placed on the coin was probably correct for when the coin was received by them but not when it was returned by them, that their own pictures prove they damaged the coin, I think morally they should have offered the customer the difference between current grade and the grade they placed on the coin with the provision that the customer signed a waiver stating that PCGS was not liable to do so.

Businesses do this all the time make a payment while admitting no wrong doing and getting a sign off on liability. Thus the one issue most often brought up, that of a precedent being set, is waived. The issue could not be used in future cases involving far more expensive coins

Edited by jaxenro
10/22/2016 10:26 am
New Member
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2016  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverengelhard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That rupee coin submitted by serial is by far the most damaged coin allegedly at the hands of a third-party grader that I have seen. It looks as if a chunk of that coin just vanished.
Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2016  07:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BluegrassRiver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Understating the value of something to insure it for less is a big mistake with any item be it a coin, diamond ring, or a home. This completely negates the very purpose of making yourself whole again in the event of a peril. You are cheating yourself to save a few cents. Insurance companies can do this with your very home to appear to have the cheapest premium so you will buy the policy. Then when there is a catastrophe your left "holding the bag." Do not underinsure!
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United States
4002 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2016  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This reads like a dang soap opera to say the least. And I agree with trout it was a troubling to see members taking a hammer to the OP while showing close to no empathy to the OP regarding the fact the coin showed up at PCGS in one state and left in other after it was graded. Mistakes happen all the time - and this thread has many - but for some reason the one that is most glaring to me is the fact this coin was damaged after it was graded and prior to leaving PCGS. I could not care less about the $15 value sent in or the dealer involved - those were mistakes and lessons learned and it appears the dealer made his part right.
What concerns me is the fact this coin apparently was damaged at PCGS after it was graded and that "OOPS" moment was not fessed up to by whomever did it. That does speak to the companies reputation - as employees are what makes a reputation and name for a company. Mistakes do happen. Owning up or not owning up shows the character of the person that made it - and in turn is a reflection of the company they work for.
ANA member: 3178122
NTCA member: 10118
Edited by scopru
11/30/2016 09:16 am
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United States
5034 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2016  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack jeckel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Say what now?

PCGS are the grand wizards of the coin industry.

And in the other thread when I criticized PCGS at least 3 people said my post should be deleted

I have a Kool Aid stand if anyone has $45 for a cup or submission.

Pillar of the Community
United States
505 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2016  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IF it makes anybody feel better, this thread sealed it for me. I will not do business with PCGS. I agree that the first problem is with the dealer who undervalued the coin, and PCGS simply did what their legal disclaimers say they'll do. But THEY damaged the coin, and THEY DOCUMENTED THAT FACT, so they can't claim that it happened elsewhere. Anybody with a thread of integrity would make it right, PERIOD. They have enough info to know the coin's true worth, and should hold themselves accountable for their negligence.

It's too damned bad we live in a world where if you don't read every jot and tittle of the fine print and protect yourself, people won't do what they ethically should do regardless. When I know about a business that operates this way, I won't do business with them, and if I have the experience myself, so that I can speak with firsthand knowledge, I warn others off as well. So I want to thank the original poster for letting me know who NOT to trust with my coins!
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United States
505 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2016  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, the submitting dealer wasn't named, but I'd avoid them too. They probably thought they were doing the OP a favor, saving some money on insurance, but they also took a huge risk if they didn't either do the research and insure for a good estimated value, or ask the OP what insurance they wanted to carry. The submission could have gone astray and if they similarly undervalued other coins, their client(s) would be out a LOT of money! They may have meant well, but its concerning.
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2017  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coins10001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was just reading through this forum. PCGS handled this very poorly.
New Member
United States
27 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  03:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Howard Black to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"They probably thought they were doing the OP a favor, saving some money on insurance"

I doubt it.

I highly doubt it.

Much more likely, he was "playing the odds rather than the stakes" by using something other than Registered Mail.

The USPS specifically limits their insurance liability for coins (and a few other items) to $15, REGARDLESS of how much insurance is purchased.

I don't want to pay for Registered Mai. Who does? I don't want to endure the delays inherent in the Registered Mail procedure. (EVERY person who handles the mail must sign for it, and is PERSONALLY LIABLE for ANY loss. In one case a postal worker who somehow managed to lose an item that was insured for over fifty grand is having monthly payments deducted from his pay.

N.B.: I'm not a postal worker - but, I was.

PS: Edited to add that because I don't want to pay for Registered Mail or endure the delays, I use third party insurance.

PPS: Edited again to add that yeah, I know I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I think this is a VERY important issue that is sadly given very little attention.
Edited by Howard Black
04/16/2019 03:20 am
New Member
United States
27 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  04:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Howard Black to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"i still dont see how the coin got slabbed after it was damaged, other than an employee going "whoops, lets just slab it and hope no one notices" (troubling thought, but I've seen worse attempts at a cover up)"

As long as I've reopened this can of worms, I might as well drop this little wiggler into the ball: In an earlier life, I had a camera repair business. Retail/wholesale.

One day, one of the technicians handed in his resignation, no warning this was coming, no explanation.

A week or so later, one of the route drivers brought back a re-do. Oh, joy, work for free. Oh, well, cost of doing business.

It was a Kodak 8mm movie projector. I put it on the bench and began to try to find out why it was not working properly.

What I discovered was that on this projector, the main chassis was made of bakelite. Bakelite is a quite hard, and quite brittle material.

The bakelite chassis had been broken in half. Yes, in half. It had then been superglued together, and the tag filled out as DONE and the projector sent back on the next delivery run.

I looked up who it was who had (ahem) "repaired" this unit. Surprise, surprise. Yup, you guessed it.
Edited by Howard Black
04/16/2019 04:43 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I looked up who it was who had (ahem) "repaired" this unit. Surprise, surprise. Yup, you guessed it.


I also had a repair business that started out as AV equipment repair.

Whenever I hired a tech I told them the worst thing you can do (besides stealing) is trying to deep six your mistakes. I only had very few problems with that through many years. Had a lot of other problems though.

But that brings us back to this PCGS mistake. I believe they are only obligated for the declared value of the coin. What they do in house to the person that damaged it is up to them. I'd bet they have policies in place to deal with this sort of thing. While I do sympathize with the OP, I don't think they have much recourse, other than to refuse to do business with PCGS.
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United States
946 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2019  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread now has a read count of over 25000. I would think the vast majority agree that PCGS is in the wrong; jaxenro's points above are a fair assessment of the situation. From a business perspective, this is a pretty bad look - this thread and deserved negative publicity has lost PCGS far more revenue than it would have cost to make things right from the start. It's probably lost at least that much in future business from me alone because of this
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