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What Is The Denomination?

 
 
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Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  8:53 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I have this large (33mm) 4.76gm copper, 15th century, coin labelled as that of Ferdinand II (possibly Federico III) of Aragon and Naples (who later, after marrying Isabella, became Spanish King Ferdinand III).

Problem is, I don't remember the denomination. Can you help?


Thanks,
Bill










Edited by BillSnyder
12/13/2014 9:03 pm
Pillar of the Community
3772 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on the size I would assume 8 Maravedis.
Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I wonder if this coin may pre-date Maravedis?
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/14/2014  04:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the size it could also be a Jeton.
Valued Member
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2014  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have all my books handy at the moment, but if I recall correctly, use of the word maravedí to refer to Spanish denominations extends at least as far back as the 1100's. They began as gold coins and later transitioned to silver and then copper. The word was also used to refer to the unit of account that differed in value from the coin. This caused confusion which led a later ruler of Spain to abandon the coin in the early 1300's. The term continued to refer to the unit of account, but it wasn't until the 1500's that the copper maravedis were coined again.

I deal mainly with 18th and 19th century coins, but I have references in my library for most Spain related items.

If I find anything I'll post again.



Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2014  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Let me re-phrase. (I should not have mentioned Spain).


See


http://www.jheauctions.com/Bidding....uid1=3084357

for another coin of the Aragon/Naples kingdom.

As you see, that copper piece is a Sestino. Similar but different.


Thanks again,
Bill



Valued Member
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2014  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for clarifying. As it happens it was still enlightening (at least for me) :)

Once I got to the bookshelf I found that maravedís were again being coined by the time of Ferdinand and Isabel (circa 1500) but the design is very different. There appear to have been several gold coins of similar design to the one you showed (shield is different) from Spain at that time as well.

Cheers,

Pat
Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2014  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PatAR -

If you do Spanish coppers of the 18th century, please send me a private message (by double-clicking on my name at the left) so we can compare collections.


Thanks,
Bill
Edited by BillSnyder
12/18/2014 8:47 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3252 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2014  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know, Bill; these two coins seem more different than the same. Particularly in the number of fleurs-de-lys; the coin you link to having none, while yours has fifteen or more. Why should an Aragonese or Neapolitan coin say "France" so loudly?
Edited by philadelphian
12/19/2014 12:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2014  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Good point! The previous owner had it marked "France", doubtless because of the many fleurs-de-lys. I came along and changed it to "Aragon/Sicily".

I'll do more looking through old reference material.

Might find the source of the (my) confusion.



Bill
Valued Member
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2014  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bill, I tried to PM as requested but it says I don't have enough posts to do that yet.

My main focus is coins of Queen Isabel II of Spain (mid 19th century), but I'm always interested in learning about other areas of numismatics as well.

Cheers,

Pat
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