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 Replies: 35 / Views: 5,524 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
I dont think there is a connection between those two sellers. It appears the first seller removed the coin from sale and worked with NGC to change the status.
Edited by EFLargeCents
12/09/2015 8:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2753 Posts |
It's a weird coincidence then? They both have the same NGC-slabbed counterfeit, and the second seller sold coins from the same batch as the first seller's counterfeit. Perhaps that's a bit more likely than two coins with the same marks. Weird.
I don't know why I spend so much time on this stuff. I'll never buy another coin off eBay anyway.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2753 Posts |
FYI, I contacted the seller of the second coin around the time of my first response here, pointing them to this thread. Their response 8 hours later: Quote:
Yes, I ended prematurely, requiring NGC explain to me, thank you for your proposal. Edit: So, what are the chances there's some kind of inside job going on at NGC with counterfeits getting legit slabs? That's the first thing that popped into my head after cruising through the two batches I mentioned in my previous posts. I could be way off base here, but still. Edited by kbbpll
12/09/2015 10:42 pm
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Valued Member
United States
243 Posts |
That is very interesting. I guess you never know at the end of the day if there is an inside slabbing job.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
This whole this has gotten very interesting and concerning. I will alert my coin club.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Very little chance of an inside job going on since they'll know who graded them and would be very easy to fire and potentially prosecute if a pattern emerged which it would have to for it to be worth the payoff fee for who ever bought them off.
A very good counterfeit has gotten through ocassionally in the past which I believe the TPGs repurchased the ones they could and made them disappear from the market.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2753 Posts |
Well, I'm sorry, but what's the easiest explanation here? Perhaps an inept grader? Two batches containing the same counterfeit. Both counterfeits get AU Details improperly cleaned. Almost every coin, in both batches (two dozen coins), are also Details. I'll ask again - Is it common to submit batches of 10+ coins that all end up Details?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
Is it common to submit batches of 10+ coins that all end up Details? Yes. If my family submitted my Great-Grandfather's collection (my side doesn't own it  ), they they would all come back cleaned because he liked all of his coins shiny. It was appraised at $300,000 decades ago, which should give some indication of its size.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Simplest explanation would just be a really good counterfeit that took time to discover. They'll get the coins back if they can and study them further in depth to come to their conclusion on the matter.
Since they changed the cert info they were obviously convinced enough that they are taking an action that would prompt a legit owner to contact them or send it back in for further examination. its not the first time somethi like this has happened but it is extremely rare
An inside job would require getting two graders then timing submissions for when they not only work a shift together but are also both working the same groups and then hope your batch of coins is done by them. It's far more complex and would take a good deal of luck too
Edited by basebal21
12/09/2015 11:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2753 Posts |
NCG flagged the entire batch that coin #1 was in. Is that also unusual? Will NGC now flag coin #2 and the entire batch? Perhaps it's standard protocol to reexamine all coins submitted together with ones like this. My head is still trying to wrap around two sellers with the same counterfeit where one is selling other flagged coins from the same batch as the other seller.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
My guess is that since those batches had a coin they now believe to be fake they're going to want to take another look at everything that person had submitted. Especially with a fake that good seems like flagging the whole batch would be the safest thing to do to at least double check everything else.
Do we actually know it's two different sellers? Could just be the same guy using multiple accounts.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
There are too many unknowns to be throwing out accusations.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
Quote:
My guess is that since those batches had a coin they now believe to be fake they're going to want to take another look at everything that person had submitted. Especially with a fake that good seems like flagging the whole batch would be the safest thing to do to at least double check everything else. My thoughts exactly. Quote:
There are too many unknowns to be throwing out accusations. Agreed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4116 Posts |
 Suppositions and questions galore on this thread ...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2753 Posts |
All the coins in the second coin's NGC batch are now also "Contact customer service" (including coin #2), so seller #2 presumably did follow up on it with NGC.
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Replies: 35 / Views: 5,524 |
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Posted 12/09/2015 8:44 pm
