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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,096 |
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Valued Member
United States
238 Posts |
Here are the pictures of this 1861 3 cent piece before I submitted it to ICG last month. What do you think ICG graded it? I'll post the results in a couple days.   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4598 Posts |
XF Details
It's XF45 by wear (note the wear mark on the shield at 2 o'clock and on the reverse on the diamond. Details because of the rim at 3 o'clock on the reverse.
I can't grade? MS61
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Just a stab at AU55, and it looks too clean to me, but not sure. Tough one.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36905 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I would have said counterfeit, but if it slabbed, then it must be genuine.
AU details.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18720 Posts |
AU details. looks like the reverse has some corrosion and looks like she's been cleaned at one time
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
AU, details. The sharpness grade is there, but someone messed with the surfaces.
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New Member
United States
46 Posts |
I agree Looks like it has seen a cleaning at some point ... Since its ICG you never know but I'm sure they probably gave it a grade higher than the other three TPG would have ... AU 50 details Anywhere else , AU53 details at ICG |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
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Valued Member
 United States
238 Posts |
Unfortunately, TypeCoin971793's feeling were correct, ICG gave this coin a code 88 or likely counterfeit grade. I did contact Randy Campbell for some additional information. He said that unfortunately there isn't one specific thing he can point to that would make it clear, but there are some details on the coin that when combined indicate it is a fake. He indicated that some of the detail on the coin was "mushy" where other design areas were stronger, but not as strong as an authentic version. He also said that in the 1930s, there was a group in an Ohio prison that manufactured these types of "high quality" counterfeits. I do own another 1861 AU details Three Cent piece and it is sharper than this coin. This is the first fake I have bought on ebay (from an established seller with 100% positive and 2,000 feedback) and was wondering what is typically done with refunds. I emailed the seller and they said to mail it back for a full refund if I am not happy. Is that done normally or should I just bite the bullet and keep it (I only paid $45)? I am afraid they might try to sell this high quality counterfeit to somebody else. Thank you everyone for looking and answering!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4598 Posts |
If it was a true contemporary counterfeit - i.e. faked for use in circulation around the time the original was in use - those are valuable (in fact they sell for a little more than the real deal). A modern counterfeit (and for an 1860s coin 1930s is modern) is not since it was made purely to fool collectors. Open an ebay case, identify it as counterfeit and follow ebay's instructions. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
Get your money back, but keep the photos. If it shows up again on ebay, report it. |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
I have been in a similar situation getting a counterfeit coin. I brought the coin to ICG, as I live local for a consult, which they do. He immediately pointed out that my coin was counterfeit and offered to write a letter so I could get a refund. My situation was also a bit more interesting in that mine was already slabbed in a in a new generation PCI holder. I dont know why ICG gets a poor wrap. They are the easiest to work with, will return your call, have the best customer service. And both RANDY CAMPBELL and SKIP FAZZARI worked for the other top tier companies.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4598 Posts |
They get the reputation because of the vast amount of garbage out there in ICG holders.
Once you trash a reputation it's almost impossible to rebuild it. Read the thread ATS about SEGS != SEGS and new SEGS not standing behind old SEGS guarantee). PCI will never recover from the fraud they perpetrated. Etc.
They should close ICG and reopen as RSCG - Randy & Skip Coin Graders. Inside of a year or two the market would tell.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,096 |
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Posted 08/09/2016 10:11 am
