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Yet Another Forum Game - Numismatic Go Fish!

 
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659 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bd251 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll go.
Post a coin or coin-like item which connects to you or your family in some way. It can me simple like a birth year set or a coin that's been in the family multiple generations or anything like that. Could also be a token or elongated coin related to your hometown or favorite vacation spot. Pretty much anything goes, there's no wrong submission. Get creative. Here is mine:




I have this Back To The Future round (it's sold as a collectable "coin"). Back To The Future is my favorite movie trilogy. My son was born this past Tuesday, November 12. A key point in the movies occurs on November 12 1955 when the clock tower is struck by lightning at 10:04pm allowing Marty to go back to 1985.

I'll choose the most interesting submission or just the one I like the most. I might get my wife to choose if she's up for it. Post multiple coins/items if you want! Have fun!
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1973 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2019  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the coin my grandfather gave me when he died 51 years ago. Got me into coin collecting.


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659 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2019  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bd251 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's wrap this up tomorrow evening to get this thread moving again.
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 Posted 11/19/2019  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bd251 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, Arkie, it was a tough choice but you win this round.
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 Posted 11/20/2019  06:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, Arkie, it was a tough choice but you win this round.


Congratulations! Arkie
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 Posted 11/20/2019  09:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, Arkie, it was a tough choice...
Sorry I could not contribute.

Quote:
...but you win this round.
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 Posted 11/20/2019  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably a repeat contest, or close to one, but here it is.

I have posted this previously.

On several occasions I have previously posted this 1502 groschen that I had purchased at a coin show.




Only recently have I researched these brothers, and discovered the role they played in the Reformation. Let me provide this excerpt from J.H. Merle D'Aubinge's History of the Reformation of the Sixteenth Century:

There was at that time in Germany a youthful prince who in many respects was the very image of [Pope] Leo X: this was Albert, younger brother of the Elector Joachim of Brandenburg. This young man at the age of twenty-four years had been created archbishop and elector of Mentz and of Magdeburg; two years later he was made cardinal.

Albert had neither the virtues nor the vices that are often met with in the superior dignitaries of the church. Young, frivolous, and worldly, but not without generous sentiments, he saw clearly many of the abuses of Romanism, and cared little for the fanatical monks who surrounded him. His equity inclined him to acknowledge, in part at least, the justice of the demands of the friends of the Gospel. At the bottom of his heart he was not violently opposed to Luther.

Capito, one of the most distinguished reformers, was long his chaplain, his counsellor, and his intimate confidant. Albert regularly attended at his sermons. "He did not despise the Gospel," said Capito; "on the contrary he highly esteemed it, and for a long time prevented the monks from attacking Luther."

But he would have desired the latter not to compromise him, and that, while pointing out doctrinal errors and the vices of the inferior clergy, he should beware of exposing the failings of bishops and of princes. Above all, he feared to see his name mixed up in the matter.

"Consider," said the confiding Capito to Luther, deceiving himself as many have done in similar circumstances, "consider the example of Jesus Christ and of the apostles: they blamed the Pharisees and the incestuous Corinthians; but they never named the offenders. You do not know what is passing in the hearts of the bishops. There is much more good in them than perhaps you imagine."

But Albert's profane and frivolous disposition, much more than the susceptibilities and fears of his self-love, was destined to alienate him from the Reformation. Affable, witty, handsome, sumptuous, extravagant, delighting in the luxuries of the table, in costly equipages, in society of literary men, this young archbishop-elector was in Germany what Leo X was in Rome. His court was one of the most magnificent in the empire. He was ready to sacrifice to pleasure and to greatness all the presentiments of truth that might have stolen into his heart. Nevertheless, even to the last, he evinced a certain resistance and better convictions; more than once he gave proofs of his moderation and of his equity.

Albert, like Leo, had need of money. Some rich merchants of Augsburg, named Fugger, had made him advances. He was called upon to pay his debts. Besides, although he had monopolized two archbishoprics and one bishopric, he had not the means of paying for his pallium. This ornament, made of white wool, besprinkled with black crosses, and blessed by the pope, who sent it to the archbishops as an emblem of their dignity, cost them 26,000, or, according to some accounts, 30,000 florins.

Albert very naturally formed the project of resorting to the same means as the pontiff to obtain money. He solicited the general farming of indulgences, or, "of the sins of the Germans," as they said at Rome.

Sometimes the popes themselves worked them; at other times they farmed them, as some governments still farm gambling-houses. Albert proposed sharing the profits of this business with Leo. The pope, in accepting the terms, exacted immediate payment of the price of the pallium. Albert, who was reckoning on the indulgences to meet this demand, again applied to the Fuggers, who thinking it a safe speculation made the required advance on certain conditions, and were named treasurers of this undertaking. They were the royal bankers of this epoch: they were afterwards created counts for the services they had rendered.

The pope and the archbishop having thus divided beforehand the spoils of the good souls of Germany, it was next a question who should be commissioned to realize the investment. It was at first offered to the Franciscans, and their superior was associated with Albert. But these monks wished to have no share in it, for it was already in bad odor among all good people. The Augustines, who were more enlightened than the other religious orders, cared still less about it.

The Franciscans, however, feared to displease the pope, who had just sent a cardinal's hat to their general Forli, — a hat that had cost this poor mendicant order 30,000 florins. The superior judged it more prudent not to refuse openly; but he made all kinds of objections to Albert. They could never come to an understanding; and accordingly the elector joyfully accepted the proposition to take the whole matter to himself.

The Dominicans, on their part, coveted a share in the general enterprise about to be set on foot. Tetzel, who had already acquired great reputation in this trade, hastened to Mentz, and offered his services to the elector.

They called to mind the ability he had shown in publishing the indulgences for the knights of the Teutonic order of Prussia and Livonia; his proposals were accepted, and thus the whole traffic passed into the hands of his order.

Competition: What is your favorite historical coin, and why? We will let the voters decide who wins. Finish Saturday night.
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 Posted 11/24/2019  05:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know what the worst part is? I have completely forgotten what contest idea I was supposed to use last week. I know I did come up with one - and then almost immediately forgot it.

If I win - and I don't see why I don't win - I might have to resort to another "match random coin" round.

(I personally would rather prefer this round to continue for another week or so, in hopes that someone comes in with another entry. But this is ultimately Arkie's decision, not mine.)


Anyway, my entry is such a direct repost [though I did fix some minor typos that I happened to notice] that I might as well just directly format it as a quote...

Quote:
I get a lot of my coins from bargain bins or other cheap purchases, but I'm legitimately not sure which of them are the most historically significant. And a few of the obvious candidates were bought for well over $5.

But there's that one coin that I keep having a mini-lecture about every time I show it off. If perhaps only because said mini-lecture is the only way to explain why I like that coin so much, because there's not really that much to look at on it...



Kingdom of Judea, Hasmonean dynasty, Mattathias (Mattatayah) Antigonus, AE 8 prutot, ca. 40-37 BC
Hendin 1162 (formerly 481), Numista 108817; 24x22 mm, 13.85 g
Bought from a 150 ruble (~$2.5) bargain bin at Hobby Market in Moscow


(The following text is mainly based on what I usually say at the mini-lectures, plus a bit of making it up as I go; which admittedly is how said mini-lectures tend to work in the first place.
As such, I apologize in advance for any resulting historical errors.)

(I also apologize in advance for the style. For some reason I'm not in the mood for writing it out properly.)


Anyway, the Hasmonean dynasty - you've heard of the Hasmonean dynasty, right? No? That's the Kingdom of Judea, no, not that Kingdom of Judea, the other one, besides, that one's actually the Kindgom of Judah... whatever.
Founded by the Maccabees, which you might have heard about, because they're in the Bible. I think. Haven't read it in years.

Anyway, they're the ones who finally got independent from all the Persians and the Macedonians and the Seleukids, in around the second century BCE, and they kind of just were there for a while.
Then the Romans came in and tried to make it part of the Empire, um, I'm not sure, it might have still been the Republic at that point? And they didn't quite get it, and they tried again, and again, and eventually they got all tired of it and just came in with a huge army.
And leading that army was Herod the Great; you've definitely heard of that guy.

So anyway, about the coins. The Hasmoneans didn't really normally make any big coins, only small copper ones, like the lepta - you've heard of leptas, right? That one is definitely in the Bible.
I think I have one of those here, though it might be actually two leptas, not sure, and it has a lot of very small letters on it that I can't read so I'm not sure what they actually say.

(It's from the same bargain bin, so it's stored in the same ziploc bag, and thus when I'm showing this coin I usually can show that one too. Should take a pic of it someday - it seems to be either an overstrike or a double strike, and I can't read enough of it to tell.
For the record, it weighs 2.02 grams, so it's a prutah, but I could hardly expect most of the people I'm showing it to to know what a prutah is, while they can usually get "two leptas", especially since that's what the Biblical quote says in the first place.)

Anyway, the Hasmoneans only made small coins, but then the Romans came in. The Romans never really were much about small copper, not until the fourth century anyway - which is another story entirely - but they sure did like their big copper.
So when Herod started conquering Judea, he also started making new coins for it with his name, and he didn't just make the normal coins of like one lepta and two leptas, but he also made much larger coins, all the way up to sixteen leptas.

And at the time, the previous ruler of Judea had just died, so they got a new one, Mattatayah Antigonus. I mean, Mattatayah was his Hebrew name and Antigonus was his Greek name, not sure why he had two, but whatever.
And apparently Mattatayah Antigonus decided that Herod's new huge coins were actually a nice idea, because he ended up making some huge coins of his own.
So he continued making the old small coins of one lepta and two leptas, and he also made new large coins of eight leptas and sixteen leptas, same size as Herod's coins, but with his own designs, and with his name, yes, both of them, one on each side. They mostly didn't actually fit. It's a common problem with ancient coins.

And this coin you see here? Mattatayah Antigonus, sixteen leptas. You can see how thick it is. They had to make special casting lines for the planchets, and then they broke the planchets off the lines before striking them, and it wasn't very even, so this one ended up with those two little bumps where the line was, see? Very interesting coin.

So, as you probably can guess, Herod ended up winning. It took about three years, approximately from 40 to 37 BCE, because the Jews of Mattatayah Antigonus really didn't like being conquered by the Roman, um, still not sure if it was already the Empire by that point but it might as well have been either way, but Herod did have a much larger army, so basically he won.
And that means Mattatayah Antigonus only ended up reigning for three years, most of which he was frantically trying to defend his country from Herod's army. So his coins are kind of uncommon, especially the new larger ones, though I think the smaller ones were too, don't recall exactly.

Anyway, Herod won, and kept ruling until he died in 4 BC, yes, I know that doesn't work, that's because Christ wasn't actually born in 1 CE, if he really existed, I mean, but someone got the calendar wrong in like the 6th century and it stuck.
Herod was succeeded by a relative, forgot who exactly, and I think he was also called Herod so it's a bit confusing, and then there were a few others, I don't recall much about them.
Then eventually around 70 CE the Jews got totally tired of being under the Romans and rebelled, and it didn't really work out for them because the Roman Empire, definitely the Empire by then, got an even more huge army and basically destroyed everything, including the Second Temple, by the way. But that's a completely different story entirely.


...Yes, I know, this huge rant, um, I mean mini-lecture, is probably full of assorted historical errors. (Also it's in terrible style.)
In particular, it makes zero mention of Parthia, because I only found out about their involvement while researching stuff for this post today.

But yeah, last ruler of independent Judea before Herod came in, or, rather, while Herod was coming in? And a new huge denomination apparently made to compete with Herod?
It's hard to get more historically significant than that. Not on the level of my collection, anyway.
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 Posted 11/24/2019  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you January1May for the history (which I did not know -- at least as to the large copper coins) and for the contribution.

Most of all, thank you that I did not kill off the thread. The burden is now yours.
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 Posted 11/25/2019  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thank you January1May for the history... The burden is now yours.
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 Posted 11/26/2019  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thank you January1May for the history... The burden is now yours.


Congratulations! J1M
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 11/28/2019  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Quick question: I've already chosen the representative coin for this round; should I go with a plain "match the coin" round, or a more fancy one?

I don't want to resort to a plain round now that I've thought of a fancy option, but I'm afraid that the fancy option would get no entries (or only one entry) and we'd just be in the same mess again.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of course either one is fine, but my vote is for fancy.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 11/28/2019  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can always try the fancy option first. If there are no entries, then try the plain one.

Hopefully, there will be an objective criteria for scoring (not a vote).
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