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Do you think Coin Grading Could Ever become completely Automated ?  
 

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 03/10/2018  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with moxking on this one. Technical grade would be easy because it's quantifiable. Eye appeal is a wholly personal decision -- everyone will have a different opinion, and even that can change over time. No numerical grade can capture that.

Even so, it would be a rather significant investment from any of the TPGs, and I'm guessing their margins are thin enough that they wouldn't jump on it without human oversight. Grades would be audited; algorithms would be tweaked. They likely wouldn't offset the cost by reducing headcount because of the volume they process, and some positions would be shifted to maintain the automated pipeline.

For counterfeit detection, sure, probably also detection of cleaning and extent of damage. That's something that seems like a valuable addition to company reputation, although it would be used less often so it would take longer to recover the cost.
Working on: Franklin halves (now complete!), Peace dollars (three to go), US type (Bust era), and just started Chinese pandas.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 03/10/2018  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No.
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 Posted 03/10/2018  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think AI might be developed to the point where every aspect of a coin's authenticity and grade could be covered, even those subjective aesthetic qualities lumped in under that "eye appeal" label. After all, that's what AI is all about ultimately - reproducing human mental faculties & abilities, which includes "subjective" judgments.

OK so say we get an AI that can make the subjective decision on eye appeal, would every one agree with it? We have humans making subjective decisions on eye appeal today, do we all agree with those decisions> What if NGC's AI has a different "opinion" than PCGS's AI? And the AI's will have to learn based on the subjective eye appeal decisions of humans, and their decisions will not agree either. So you will end up with an AI that might be able to come to a consistent judgement on a grade based on "eye appeal", but people will still not agree and judge the coins based on their own biases and making claims of "misgrading".
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 03/10/2018  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it would be great if there was some kind of computer aided tool to help graders. Maybe some kind of machine that you could put the coin into, and a basic algorithm could get the grader into the ball park where they could put the final grade on it.
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 Posted 03/10/2018  11:49 am  Show Profile   Check einstem's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add einstem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think it would be great if there was some kind of computer aided tool to help graders. Maybe some kind of machine that you could put the coin into, and a basic algorithm could get the grader into the ball park where they could put the final grade on it.


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 Posted 03/10/2018  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will never understand why people think computers would be an upgrade. Any AI program will "learn" as it goes meaning grading will still change and will still evolve.

As a tool it can be helpful, but if it becomes anything more than just a tool then the graders end up becoming dependent upon it and their skill erodes. Professional grades don't need a basic tool to ballpark grades for them, they would be fired quickly if they did. Really they don't need anything that tells them anything grade wise, it can certainly be helpful on the counterfeit front but it would not be an improvement if we start going past it being a tool and just having it replace the graders.

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 Posted 03/10/2018  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Professional grades don't need a basic tool to ballpark grades for them, they would be fired quickly if they did.

Working on: Franklin halves (now complete!), Peace dollars (three to go), US type (Bust era), and just started Chinese pandas.

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 03/10/2018  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
also. Was thinking more of on the lines that with all the technology we have today, it could be incorporated "somehow." Detecting counterfeits would a great place to start.
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 Posted 03/11/2018  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think it would be great if there was some kind of computer aided tool to help graders. Maybe some kind of machine that you could put the coin into, and a basic algorithm could get the grader into the ball park where they could put the final grade on it.

They've had that ability since 1991. The computer can technical grade based on wear, strike, and marks. At that point the human greater should step in and use his subjective eye appeal to set the final market grade. People will still argue about it but that's about the best you going to get.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 03/11/2018  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Every coin collector would be better off, if they could grade accurately for themselves. That may take some time to learn, but well worth it.

Slabs have their best use when selling in a situation, where the intending buyer cannot examine the coin in hand before deciding to buy. In this situation the intending buyer is denied that opportunity. eBay is the most common situation for this.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
no

...too political & something that would force down TPG's overall profitability in the long run.

An inverse comparison would be robotics (drink fillers) in fast food restaurants since Big Mac would not develop, manufacture and sell this equipment.

MickeyD's costs would decrease and profits increase while TPGs would be forced to dramatically lower their prices to consumers to stay competitive ...
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 Posted 03/13/2018  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Technical grading, perhaps. Final grading, no. I don't see machines being able to judge eye appeal.
Remember, what the Dormouse said.
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