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Origin of the term "retained cud" ?  
 

 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 07/02/2018  09:08 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am curious about the origin of the term "retained cud" and was hoping someone might know and share it with us.

The reason I am curious is because of a thread I started on the Canadian variety and error forum about cuds on Canadian coins. In that discussion it seems that Canadian collectors prefer the term "retained broken die" while U.S. collectors seem fine with "retained cud".

Maybe someone from the excellent "Cuds on Coins" site would know the answer.

Thanks

Pillar of the Community
United States
785 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2018  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrency Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll give it a shot. A die breaks such that it arcs from one spot on the rim to another. The piece stays in place because it is the bottom die and the collar holds it in place, "retaining it." If it breaks away it then becomes a normal "blob"cud. I may have it a little sketchy but my recent focus has been in paper currency and we don't get many "cuds".

Regards,

KK
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 Posted 07/02/2018  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a good question.

I suspect the answer might lay in the American propensity for slang terms, and a common feature of bovine digestion which might be said to resemble one....
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 07/03/2018  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Ken and Dave for the info.


Quote:
I suspect the answer might lay in the American propensity for slang terms


You may have answered my question Dave. I hadn't thought about the tendency for us Americans to shorten terms. My question wasn't so much about where the word "cud" came from, although I like your answer .

It was the term "retained cud" I was wondering about, since several Canadian collectors pointed out to me that the cud wasn't retained, but part of the die was, which created the cud with design features still evident.

Maybe US error experts shortened "retained broken die cud" to "retained cud". That could explain it, but that's still a guess. Does anyone know for sure?
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 Posted 07/03/2018  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A cud, by definition, is a broken die. That's inferred. Since both countries seem agreed upon using the term "retained" when the broken-off piece has not yet fallen out, I figured your question regarded why Americans use the term "cud."

And since the idea of a "broken die" covers more possibilities than just what we call a "cud," it seems appropriate that a feature-specific term should be used. It's a bit awkward to use "retained broken die" until the piece falls out, and then call it a "cud."
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 Posted 07/03/2018  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrency Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah we Americans use crazy terms like...lamination when clearly the metal has broken away and therefore it has "de-laminated". Lamination is building it up.

KK
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 Posted 07/03/2018  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's a bit awkward to use "retained broken die" until the piece falls out, and then call it a "cud."


Yes, but that's what my Canadian friends do. They don't consider the cud to be the broken die, but the part produced on the coin by the broken die, and so they don't like the term retained cud, since it was the broken part of the die which was retained.

I guess to be real accurate we should call it a "retained broken die segment-partial cud" ouch! No wonder it got shortened to retained cud.

Personally, I'm fine with either term. The discussion with my Canadian friends just got me to wondering how the term originated.

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 Posted 07/04/2018  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I guess to be real accurate we should call it a "retained broken die segment-partial cud"

Of course since "cud" is still a slang term, to get rid of it you have "retained broken dies segment at the edge of the coin"
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 07/05/2018  02:03 am  Show Profile   Check Errors and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errors and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me, "Retained Cud" makes more sense, because the die has a broken piece that hasn't fallen out yet, retaining that piece.
Errors and Varietys.
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