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Re-entry Question For The Forum

 
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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1615 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2018  8:58 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
re-entry question. I was wondering if I found a re-entry on a coin. I can tell it is off almost a full letter. how should any member deal with that coin. I hope the members here can help me
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4624 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2018  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you explain a bit more please, not under standing what you are asking.
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United States
2584 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  03:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pls post a picture so we know what you are referring to. What's a "re-entry"?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6999 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only time I have seen "re-entry" used is in the space program.
Are you referring to a counterfeit coin?

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Canada
628 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add loonielewy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd be the first to buy a "heat shield" coin Jimmy. Can you say PMD? .
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1615 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thats for sure jimmy. took it to a dealer. he said rocky give me that, before they arrested you. I said why do they do that. think about its easy money for them. he said that hurts all of us collector. he said I will put that up on my shelf to teach others with. thank you all for your replies thanks jimmy. have a great one
Pillar of the Community
United States
1879 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tunnioc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think he means doubled die. A re-entry is stamp collecting terminology for a type of doubling.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1615 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tunnioc yes you are correct. but in the old days re-entry was a word used to describe. a new variety that was done. when the master die was at its end. so the mint created a new master to finish a run of coins. when that happen the the new master die had some small little different from the oringinal master. similiar to stamps. right now I am reading alot of older coin books. one of the books stated these young people. know a days always trying to change collecting language, it struck me quit funny. have a great one
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Canada
283 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2018  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add castor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good evening

Here is the meaning.




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United States
2584 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2018  05:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that Hans needed to bone up a little on the preparation of dies. By his definition, EVERY die would would have been "re-entered". It took 2-3 times to both harden the original and anneal(soften) the receiving die component. It makes no difference whether you are talking about the master or the hub or the working die .. it couldn't be done in one shot. Is the OP trying to describe hub-doubling?
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Canada
8609 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2018  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While Hans Zoell was meticulous, reading his works it is obvious that he did not understand the nuances with die creation, and strike variations from the deterioration of dies.

If this was done to the master die, then such features would be transferred to all the working dies.
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1615 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2019  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
spp ottawa question. I want to try to explain this correctly. ok I have 2 coins. the question is if the obverse inscription is off by half a letter. this would be a new variety correct. see I have put together a computer program. I can check a coin in seconds. if there is the slights difference when using this program. to check coins you will see that so easy. see the program also applies plotting. the type of plotting I am talking about if you know anything about the pathfinders. then you know what I am talking about. ok for the pathfinders what I am using is called through the door up the stairs. so any of you that had been trainned to use that terminology. knows the accuracy is 100 percent. so if any part of a coin is not completely identical. you see it on the monitor instantly. meaning right down to a tiniest detail you can imagine
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Canada
8609 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2019  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Therein lies the question - at what point does a change in the die become a variety?

To put that in other words, how would this scanning method account for die deterioration? Die cracks, chipping of chrome plated dies, and other features can evolve on a die's surface simply from being used to the end of its meaningful life... coins struck by the same die at different stages of its like, will not be identical. Other factors, like Machine Doubling, come to mind...

In my opinion - all of the above does not define a variety, much like a grease-fill die would not... a true variety, or difference, has to exist on the working dies.
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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United States
2584 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2019  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP and I know a person, locally, that seems to be working on a very similar "electronic" method of precisely examining items ... in both cases they have applied it to coins during the tests. He is also a member of this forum. You two should get together and talk.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1615 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2019  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
spp that no problem. what I have found so far are all true varieties. okiecoiner sure I would not mind a bite having a chat with this person. okiecoiner thank you for suggesting this. I have right now 10 solid new varieties.i went had a chat with a couple of dealers. they are more than willing to supply me even more coins. all I have to do is catalog theres for them before they are returned. oh and yes we have a little deal worked out. thank you both for your input.
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8609 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  01:37 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Given that dies are designed on computers... I can imagine where your scanning might work is when there are changes in things like font styles, kerning and spacing sizes... that said, you still need two to produce more than one master punch (matrix) and master die, to then create the working punches (hubs) and dies.
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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