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Geo III Farthings & 1/2p's - Need Id's, Vlack #s, Etc.

 
 
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Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2018  12:55 am Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I went a bit crazy in the early 2000's after I got on ebay. I bought a pile of early British coins and managed to accumulate 55 1770's farthings and halfpennies.

A lot of them are counterfeits, but trying to find any listing to figure out what's what is almost impossible. I can't find any comprehensive listing of different types and finding a Vlack list has proved fruitless. If anyone can steer me to a sight that has more than 3 or 4 examples, it would be appreciated. (I don't need the history of them, I've read a lot of write-ups on the net).

I'll start posting them here, hoping you can give me some help identifying them. Any type or number would be great, and a value would be a bonus.

I'll post every week or so and number each coin so anyone checking the posts later can still give an ID or any other info.

Here's #1. Counterfeit farthing, thin, 2.30 gms. with no date, only 3 incused marks. The area between the bouquet, legs, and lettering IT, is raised (die clash? no damage on the other side). The letters IT are incused, the A is partially incused and the N is raised. The stop (dot) that would follow NIA, if they were there, is also incused. The spear is broken below the hand.







*** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by TerryT
12/29/2018 01:04 am
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United States
8267 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2018  02:55 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Clem Schettino's website (CopperClem) is a good place to start.

http://www.copperclem.com/BritishGIII.htm

You can learn the "families" this way to help you visually identify the coins. You can also look at the other issues there, not just G3 1/2'd' but also G2/G3 farthings, pennies, Hibernia issues, Machins Mills, etc.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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United Kingdom
1351 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2018  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add peter1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the pictured coins are contemporary copies.
Colincooke.com has good references/pictures for regal coins.Look in the collections area.
Valued Member
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2019  01:01 am  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the copperclem link. Looks like I'll be able to identify some from there.

#2 - Here's another counterfeit farthing, 177?, that I haven't found any info about. Very thin, 2.05 grams, off-centre. Die crack at the bottom of the spear shaft to the second 7.



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United States
15922 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2019  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One problem you will have finding attributions is that the Vlack work only covers counterfeits made in the US, but most of the counterfeit half pennies etc were made in Emgland and I don't believe there is a reference for those. Best source is probably the site paralyse listed.I have his CD but it only shows the images with no descriptions. The website is probably better since the sale listing do give descriptions.
Gary Schmidt
Valued Member
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2019  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is this halfpenny a Machin Mills ? It appears to have the pointed denticles associated with MM. It is also double struck - line of denticles cutting into the field by the bouquet (arrow). On the obverse, there is extra metal under the X of REX. Any catalogue # ?



Valued Member
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
#4 - Regal or non-regal 1/2p ? Die clash above Britannia's arm (from ribbon on reverse)


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 Posted 04/20/2019  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ TerryT

IMHO, having flung open the door to a tremendous learning experience, you really should buy the book(s) ...
Valued Member
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2019  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exoguy,
It seems that the 30 year guarantee for the sump pump is a lie. It wasn't so much that the door was flung open; it was more a seepage through the mailbox among the hundreds of Canadian coins, Tiffin, Nova Scotia, PEI and other Cdn. colonial coins, Roman uncleaned, Medieval British silver pennies, and King Charles to King George III farthings & halfpennies, that poured in after ebay started. The sand in the sandbags used to staunch the flow turned to mud instead, and without help to take the mud off, I'll never be able to get out of this quagmire. If there was A book, at a reasonable price, I would buy it. The most I paid for any of the 55 coins was $16.50 Cdn. The price of trying to buy all the books necessary to identify them would be way more than the cost of the coins, and the books are not available anyway. I've looked online and zilch.

I have been collecting since 1962 and have too many interests and have to cut down my areas of collecting. I want to concentrate more on the above parts of my collection and have no time to research another area. In my earlier collecting years, I never heard of Vlack ( wouldn't know from Aflack,quack), or counterfeit 1/2p's, or even Canadian colonial tokens, so never studied them. This site is supposed to be to help collectors, but more often than not, the responses are, "Go help yourself". I was just hoping someone here could go, snap, "I know that one". That's what I do on the Canadian coin section of this site.
Edited by TerryT
04/25/2019 5:10 pm
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52 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  07:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paradimecoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
pretty neat!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15922 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This site is supposed to be to help collectors, but more often than not, the responses are, "Go help yourself". I was just hoping someone here could go, snap, "I know that one". That's what I do on the Canadian coin section of this site.

The problem is counterfeit British half pennies is a very thinly collected field. As you have found references are few and far between. Somewhere I had a link to an the varieties of the Canadian Blacksmith tokens, but I believe it is on my other computer. I don't think there has been much new written on them since Howland Woods work in 1910. For the American made counterfeits there is William Antons The Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies (Both the original and the 25th anniversary edition that go for around $60. The anniversary publication has not received great reviews though.)

Vlack is probably still the standard reference for the Counterfeits struck in America. He published a book in 1965 (which I have not been able to locate) and in 1974 he published a set of photographic plates that showed all the known marriages at that time. An actual copy of the plates is difficult to come by but they are available on line here at links at the of the page.
https://coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoi...n.intro.html
There have been new discoveries since then, to trace them you would need to go through back issues of The Colonial Newsletter.

For counterfeits struck in England I am not aware of much in the way of references, but a new one was published last year by the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4) Contemporary Counterfeit Halfpenny and Farthing Families (volume 1) (available on abebooks.com) In order to make identification easier it breaks them down into families of related pieces (families being pieces that are stylistically or punch linked.) Volume 1 discusses and illustrates some 54 different families.

As you can see it is a very broad field, and there aren't a lot of specialists. It makes getting an "I know that one!" response unlikely. I'm just beginning to dabble in the field myself.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
614 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Go here:

https://nnp.wustl.edu/

Search for Vlack. Start wading.
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