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Aes Grave, Too Heavy?

 
 
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New Member

Belgium
9 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  11:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Thelloyf to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,

A while ago, I bought a aes Grave from another collector. I was told that it originated from a very small hoard of roman republican coins. But don't have more info.

It weighs 157g, which is heavy for a semilibral aes Grave... Although I found some of 160g in auction catalogues.
It has been cleaned (saddly) and now looks yellowish.

I usually only buy denarii, so have little knowledge of these types.
Anyone know if it's the real deal?
Might not keep it, as it doesn't fit my coinbox #128523; but would hate to sell a forgery...



Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4150 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I've never really looked into these - even in this condition (good detail, but stripped of its patina), it is still a very valuable piece and I don't expect I'll ever come across one in my price range. It is a hard thing to tell if it is authentic because it was cast to begin with. I think the clincher might be those corrosion pits - if they form a lip, then the pit wasn't present before casting.
New Member
Belgium
9 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thelloyf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

Hope this image helps, because I have no clue what to look for...
What do you recon thé value is of such a coin?

Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4150 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It will take examination in hand to decide if it is authentic. Casting artifacts are much harder to judge when the original coin is cast - that filled 'crack' at the top might be a good indicator on its own.

Previous auction results for this type are in the thousands of dollars, so an expert opinion is definitely needed, probably either an auction specialist or a museum curator. If you're in Europe, your national museum is likely a good place to have this authenticated, but sending it to auction is easier.
New Member
Belgium
9 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thelloyf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the advice!

Don't think we have a museum with a lot of experience in those pieces nearby.

What about the weight? Most weigh about 145g. So it's 10g too heavy...
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4150 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think the weight is too strict. The Aes Grave is supposed to be around 270g, but even in the early days the weight fluctuated by a lot just because of how the coin was made. The weight dropped precipitously towards the end of the issue due to metal shortages in the second punic war (links below to examples of various weights in the vast British Museum collection of Aes Graves showing Janus). I don't think it is necessarily possible to pick out a fake by weight alone.

49g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

62g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

77g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...janus&page=1

84g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

90g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

101g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...janus&page=1

125g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

132g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

149g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

161g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

218g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1

239g: https://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...=list&page=1
New Member
Belgium
9 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thelloyf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you!
Really helpfull!
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United States
22403 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community

I agree this would be a rare and valuable coin if genuine. It's difficult to say from a few images. The coin should be examined by and expert in this type. You might want to check out your local museums they be able to help.

You can also send it out to David Sear for certification: https://www.davidrsear.com/

This might also help: http://numismatics.org/crro/results
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
15545 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2019  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with everything that Ben has written.
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United States
73293 Posts
New Member
Belgium
9 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2019  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thelloyf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all!

I live in Belgium, so shipping to thé US can ben tricky. Does anyone know a certification service close to Belgium which is reliable?

Pillar of the Community
United States
2071 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2019  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You could start with a call to Jean Elsen et ses Fils in Brussels. http://www.elsen.eu. They sell ancient coins in their auctions, and I expect might be able to give you an opinion on authenticity, and of course if it is authentic, they could sell it for you (their next auction s iin June)

If not, perhaps they can refer you to another expert in Belgium.

Edited by tdziemia
04/23/2019 4:21 pm
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