Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsCoin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1909 P VDB LWC No Dots In VDB

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 117 / Views: 17,901Next Topic
Page: of 8
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  3:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I found this 1909 VDB cent in a mixed bag some time ago and finally got around to looking at it. It is a shame the scuff marks on the obverse, none on the reverse and both sides are extremely well struck. I noticed the dots were missing in between the VBD. I do not believe this is an over polishing issue as the devises appear to be pretty well preserved and are normal width. I don't believe its grease related as the devises are not flattened or spread out. I don't think its a debris issue as I would think that would have filled in the initials as well. I took two pics at different angles to show no semblance of any dots between the devises. Thoughts on why this does not have the dots or may have this been a prototype? The last pic was borrowed from stock.
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
Pillar of the Community
nfine's Avatar
United States
3473 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting...
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought I would post these two pics of the dots in EPU. Another reason to make me believe it isn't grease or debris filled or over polished.
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
Bedrock of the Community
Errers and Varietys's Avatar
United States
74624 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting. Not sure what to think?
Errers and Varietys.
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Me either. Whatever the reason it 2x2 worthy. Should I send the one to James Wiles?
Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The VDB on your coin looks fake like it was put there post strike . But why would someone add the initials on a common 1909-P ?
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed, especially to a damaged coin like this.
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
T-Bop, Coinfrog, I asked myself that same question. I know there are a lot of counterfeited S's but I've never heard or read anywhere someone doing this to a Philly version. The N is correct for the RDV-002 and the weight is pretty much dead on. Also, the D is dead on as the bottom bottom of it arks upward, on the counterfeit version of the S the D is flat at the bottom. The B took a slight ding so can't really tell there. I'm just at odds as to what caused this.
Edited by Jim0815
09/06/2019 4:25 pm
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sent pics of this cent to Mike Diamond. He told me that some 1909 VDB's were minted with reverse working dies that had to be hand punched. There might have been one working reverse die that the dots were omitted. He's going to do some research on it and possibly do a write up on this cent.
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, thanks for that.
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2019  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes sir! I learn something new everyday about this hobby.
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I emailed pics of this cent to Mike Diamond and he asked me to send this cent to him. I received an email from him this morning, he said there could be three possibilities but it should make for an interesting article. My weekend has been made.
Edited by Jim0815
09/14/2019 12:27 pm
Pillar of the Community
CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great news! I look forward to hearing about it.

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dots are there. They are just weak. The image below it is a San Francisco mint VDB. The dots are different on the Philly VDB:
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
Top image is a 1909-S VDB.
Lower image is a Philly VDB.
Pillar of the Community
Jim0815's Avatar
United States
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry coop, the dots are not there. Mr. Diamond has already looked at the cent under magnification. There are no raised areas where the dots should be.
Edited by Jim0815
09/14/2019 1:22 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Panther to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back in 1963, when I first started collecting coins, I remember the excitement of getting my first 1909-VDB Lincoln Cent. I put it in the 2X2 and it's been there since 1963. Until today when I read this thread and out of curiosity checked it.
I'm not 100% positive but it appears as though my 1909-VDB also is missing the periods between the Initials.

Dan
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
1909-P-VDB-LWC-No-Dots-In-VDB
Edited by Panther
09/14/2019 2:13 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 117 / Views: 17,901Next Topic
Page: of 8

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.35 seconds to rattle this change. Forums