Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Question Concerning Condition Rarity And Actual Rarity

 
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
New Member

United States
2 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  4:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add roverking to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Condition rarity and actual rarity seems biased in some cases. An 1893s mint Morgan has actual rarity in any condition because so few are available and very few are in MS condition because all were put in circulation.
On the other hand the 1885CC Morgan had very few put in circulation with over 65% put away in Federal banks vaults for nearly 100 years
NGC has certified nearly 24.000 1885CC Morgans in MS condition but only 154 coins in lower circulated grades. These coins withstood time, melts, being lost or damaged or just being worn out.
With a mintage of only 228.000 coins and 65% stored allows for only about 75.000 put in circulation, far less than the very expensive 1893s Morgan at 100.000. NGC has certified only 39 1885CC Morgans in VF 30. Do the math, witch coin is rarer, 1 of 24.000 or 1 of 39 that has history on its side, not a bag! As a long time collector of rare coins this particular issue seems to go against every rule of numismatics.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
78214 Posts
Pillar of the Community
United States
5655 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A modern example is the 1961-D and 1963-D Lincoln Cents. In MS65RD they are a R-1 coin, in MS66 R-2, and in MS67 R-6.5. Big jump in rarity.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq...ukyxurAHKuRg
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3536 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF!

The only rule of numismatics of which I'm aware is:

"He who has the gold makes the rules."

Seriously, though, I don't think that this aspect of collecting can be quantified across the board.
Edited by ExoGuy
10/01/2019 6:46 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
17898 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can go outside and grab a natural rock. To get an exact duplicate of that rock would be nearly impossible even with a limitless number of rocks in the world.

Rare does NOT mean valuable.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7853 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And you have to remember that grading companies only report what has been submitted to them. In reality, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of raw circ. 1885-CC Morgans out there. The grading companies don't report these because they aren't submitted.
Sets in progress... Mercury dimes, Washington quarters, 7070 Type Set, WLH Short Set
View my collection here! http://www.coincommunity.org/galler...hp?cat=10518
My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/328488
ANA: 3183215
Pillar of the Community
United States
1992 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2019  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem gets worse with the 1882-3-4 cc's, each of which is more common in high grades than many common date Morgans.

I'm carrying a beat-up 1859-S half eagle as a pocket coin right now. It is 200x rarer than an 1893-S Morgan. The melt value is more than half of what I paid for it, and a comparable 1893-S Morgan would cost three times as much. It a pre 1860 San Francisco coin, real Gold Rush money. It's so shabby that carrying it can't hurt its value.

With all this going for it, I wonder why other people don't do this. I'm glad they don't because just one other collector would exhaust the supply.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
10/02/2019 2:44 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18637 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2019  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Just to many variables in coin collecting
just carl
Pillar of the Community
United States
2768 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2019  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One thing you need to account for with Morgans is the "melt". The Pittman Act of 1918 resulted in the melting of over 270 million Morgans. There was no accounting for date/mm, only raw numbers. Mintage figures will be forever skewed. The survivor numbers are estimated based on PCGS, NGC, and ANACS grading. And even these are skewed with resubmits.
New Member
United States
2 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2019  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add roverking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
most explanations tend to lean to the fact there are no true actual rare circulated Morgans, only uncirculated coins in MS condition!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15922 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2019  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And most of the uncirculated Morgans aren't rare either.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
524 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2019  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Diamonds come to mind when thinking about mintage rarity vs. conditional rarity. By no means are they rare, billions and billions have resided on as many fingers for centuries. Yet for a few weeks every year, at Christmas and Valentine's Day that $1,000 dollar stone costs $100.00. Why? Because DeBeers controls 99.9% of the global market. With coins, it's similar in some ways but set by a select group of wealthy individuals setting the market price. So, yeah. I agree with you Moxking.

The only exception to the rule would be those with unique status. Say the 1849 Coronet Head Double Eagle.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1457 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2019  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Check Andrew99's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw a common, low grade dime which was like a Pop 2 in grade as no one had bothered to submit any. Condition rarity doesn't mean much if no one cares.

Even actual rarity only means big bucks if it is supported by demand. There are many R6 and R7 patterns that are cheaper than a decent 1877 Indian Head cent or 1909-S VDB cent, but since collectors of patterns are mostly dead now, they trade at a relative discount to the other more common rarities.
The collection is in your mind. Dispose of your albums and free your mind from the tyranny of holes.
Edited by Andrew99
10/14/2019 4:42 pm
Valued Member
United States
171 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2019  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Captain Jack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thq and your 1859 half eagle:

you're carrying around a $1,000 dollar coin as a pocket piece !?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1992 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2019  10:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What are pocket pieces for?
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
78214 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2019  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What are pocket pieces for?
Whatever you want them to be. I carry an Ike to make me happy and not want to choke certain people.
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.03 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05