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1852 Frang? Napoleon Bonaparte Error?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 609Next Topic  
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 Posted 01/11/2020  11:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jgeiger to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
What are the tollereances for weight on this coin and how to tell if it's an error

Edited by Jgeiger
01/12/2020 09:45 am
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Sweden
395 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2020  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Jgeiger,

This is not an error coin. It is a counterfeit coin. The comments in the previous thread (http://goccf.com/t/364069) where you showed us this coin were quite clear on that, but you are not convinced then.

Firstly, I assume the "error" you are referring to are the two "misspellings": FRANG instead of FRANC and FRANGAISE instead of FRANÇAISE. Now, an error of that magnitude is simply unimaginable. It would require the skilled French coin engraver, who is of course very well aware of the spelling of both franc and française, to make not one, but two mistakes. Then it has to pass through the several stages of quality control at the Paris mint, without anyone noticing such a grave error. And it would go out in circulation and to collectors, and there it would remain for more than 150 years without anyone making note of this - beacuse there are no records of an error like this, and there would be if there was, believe me - until now. It would be like a "UNITED STATEZ 5 CENTZ" coin slipping through all stages of checks and out into circulation.

You can also compare the lettering to a genuine example (look it up in Numista) and you will see that the letters do not look like they should, the counterfeiter has used a different font.

So whether the coin has the correct weight for a 1 franc coin is secondary, it is still a counterfeit even if it is spot on the 5 g it should weigh. (The nominal weight for French 19th century 1 francs is 5.00 g with a tolerance of 0.015 g - wear will take off more than that though.)
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United States
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 Posted 01/13/2020  06:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jgeiger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry didn't mean to offend you. Sites alil hard to navigate yet. I just put it under world coin errors instead yes it does sound pretty unlikely that it would make it out of the country. so there might be a site somewhere with these coins as a souvenir or a government warning then? Take some digging I'm sure but there'd have to be more out there then...But I've gotta give it to him, he's got a great mold why not make a 20 franc instead

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 Posted 01/13/2020  06:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, those are good questions about why you have not found the coin elsewhere, but the fact remains that the experts here have pointed out why this is not an error coin.
Here is a photo of a genuine 1852. In particular, it is easy to see that the lettering style is on the reverse of your coin is not correct.



It is not too hard to imagine that this item could have been a political joke related to a hypothetical union of France and England.
Edited by tdziemia
01/13/2020 06:32 am
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 Posted 01/13/2020  07:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Jgeiger: No no, no offense taken! I didn't mean to sound harsh, sorry if you took it that way. I just wanted to make it clear why this coin is a 100 % certain fake.

The coin is out of circulation (demonetized) for a long time now, so there will be no government warnings about it. It is up to the collectors' community (that's us, I think ) to warn about these.
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 Posted 01/13/2020  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Contemporary French counterfeits are collectable. A good place to look at them is the archives of cgb.fr, searching using the word faux. I have an 1846 plated 2 franc, which I value at about $50.

Unfortunately I can't find anything that resembles your 1852 frang. Counterfeiters didn't make spelling errors, even when their work was crude. There are a lot of satirical French coins (including 1852 1F's with Louis Phillippe wearing a crown of thorns) but they are made using real coins. Sort of like American hobo nickels.

I hate to say it, but this looks like a modern fantasy piece.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/13/2020 10:39 pm
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 Posted 01/14/2020  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jgeiger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm done talking about this but I guess all the coins on eBay are fake too because they sure look like the same style font as said coin. There's My two cents. Let's leave it there
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 Posted 01/14/2020  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the kind of difference a few of us are seeing. It can be easier to see with a side-by-side blow up.

Edited by tdziemia
01/14/2020 5:19 pm
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 Posted 01/14/2020  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jgeiger Technically the coin is a Numismatic Forgery a coin that was manufactured to defraud coin collectors. It is not a Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit to circulate alongside genuine coins. Coins of the former type are worth almost nothing over the value of the metal they contain. Coins of the latter type are historical relics and are typically of some numismatic value.

Calling a coin a counterfeit is an inadequate term like fake. The actual value is derived from the motive of the manufacturer.

The close up comparison of the fonts is telling in this case. The forgery uses a typical modern style that is likely Chinese in origin. The original coin was struck from dies that were made with a master hub.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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