Julius Caesar Denarius. 47-46 Bc, Mint In Africa.

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Author	Replies: 12 / Views: 1,979
TobyJ Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1273 Posts	Posted 06/21/2020 10:32 am Today I've been going through my collection of old coins, wanting to take some nice photos etc. I came across this in my Romans. I believe it is a Julius Caesar Denarius from 47-46BC, minted in Africa. The reverse is Aeneas walking left, carrying Anchises and the Palladium. I bought it from an auction in a job lot of Roman coins about 5 years ago, (I think I paid about £200 but I got a lot of different coins.) After some searching, this Denarius seems to be quite valuable, not that I want to sell it, but perhaps I may send it into NGC. The strike seems way off-center, was this typical of the period and does this bring the value down I assume? I really like the coin. Edited by TobyJ 06/21/2020 10:35 am Report this Post to the Staff

Kamnaskires Pillar of the Community United States 7066 Posts	Posted 06/21/2020 9:29 pm That's a nice find. Congrats. Here are some links to similarly off-centered strikes - and with hammer prices listed. Of course grading will factor in too. Most of these might grade a bit higher than yours: https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=131454 https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=168539 https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=92892 https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=386641 Report this Post to the Staff
FVRIVS RVFVS Pillar of the Community United States 3433 Posts	Posted 06/22/2020 12:12 pm I have never sent a coin to NGC so I can't speak with much authority But the surfaces of the coin have some marks and scratches as well NGC may well view may take a dim view of these With this type of coin the edges must also be carefully examined Denarius of Caesar are commonly faked (I think this one is probably genuine but need to withhold judgement without examining closer) If it were a common and inexpensive piece judging it is simpler and easier But I do see places where it appears to have surface abrasions The lower obv fields as well as the hair seems to have been 'worked' The reverse also inside the dotted border Most encrustations on good silver can be dissolved rather easily But it looks like someone scratched some things away with a steel pin It may well have been just a fool with some tools A shame But it will effect the grade and final valuation The weight and edges are important things to check Report this Post to the Staff
TobyJ Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1273 Posts	Posted 06/22/2020 12:49 pm Thanks for the responses. I'll check the exact weight (digiscales are with a family member at the moment) and will take some photos of the edges, will reply in the next few days. Report this Post to the Staff
TobyJ Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1273 Posts	Posted 06/23/2020 2:23 pm Exact width is 19mm at widest. 17.5mm from top to bottom. Weight is 3.33 grams. I've noticed other ones weigh about 3.7 to 3.9 grams but they have more detail. On the reverse, the edges taper out to the left side of the coin (like the coin is flattened more away from the left side, compared with the thick left edge.) Here are some more photos. Report this Post to the Staff
Palouche Pillar of the Community Spain 2752 Posts	Posted 06/23/2020 6:35 pm Hi TobyJ.....I'm really not experienced enough to judge the coin but I must say I wish other people would post pictures of their coins as you have..(really nice photos)...And these give the experts a much better chance at the coin via an image, which is always difficult at the best of times....So thanks for posting!.... Please take what I'm about to say with a very big pinch of salt!...The 2nd photo seems to show the remnants of a horizontal seam line?...But could be completely wrong!...Surfaces seem to have bubbles? but this could be just be burial conditions..There seems to have been some tooling maybe down the vertical line of the portraits neck and also on some of the reverse body extremities?....Overall look aaaaaa something not right...But can't put a definite pointer on it.... OK my inexperienced verdict is.......60% fake //40% real Sorry and as I said before I REALLY do hope I'm wrong!...Paul Report this Post to the Staff
FVRIVS RVFVS Pillar of the Community United States 3433 Posts	Posted 06/23/2020 7:56 pm I don't think it is a cast But some of the edges do look peculiar The right obv edge seems somewhat flat and angular The faint line mentioned is an issue as well as the pitted edges Someone may have gone to some length to obscure tell tale signs of fraud Without first hand examination I can't say either way Coins like this have been used as jewelry in centuries past Suffice to say the coin seems to have some issues Add in the fact that Caesar is a favorite of Wile E Coyote types selling fakes ...... Well I'm 50/50 If you want authentication I think David Sear might be a better choice Either way I'm afraid I think you need to pay an expert for an opinion But even if it is good It does have these 'issues' that would keep it out of the 1,000£ range But hey I've collected for 45 years and I don't even have one ! Report this Post to the Staff
TobyJ Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1273 Posts	Posted 06/24/2020 12:18 pm Thanks so much everyone for the detailed responses. Thanks Palouche for the kind comment on the photography, I try my best :D. I see what you mean about the scratch marks that looks like someone has used a tool to maybe get rid of dirt ? I've put arrow marks on the photo to make sure we are talking about the same thing. I think the scratch mark on the obverse near the eye is just a small scratch, expected after so many years in existence perhaps. But it is a shame nonetheless. Could you point out where the horizontal seam line you see is? so I could maybe get a closer photo. Here are some more photos anyway so we can try to get an idea of the shape, design, etc. Using these closer images you can see several small 'pock' marks in the obverse face. I've tried to take better photos of the edges too. I hope it is real, I think it came from Tennants auctioneers in North Yorkshire who are quite renowned, but it was in a job lot so who knows. One thing I do like, after seeing it so close up, is the blue colouring around the beads on the obverse and some on the reverse. Also, at the bottom of the reverse has someone scratched 'SP.'? Or am I seeing things. Edited by TobyJ 06/24/2020 12:21 pm Report this Post to the Staff
FVRIVS RVFVS Pillar of the Community United States 3433 Posts	Posted 06/24/2020 3:38 pm The red line on left points to a rounded edge The one on right to an angular edge The line in middle points to what might be a faint line I am really not sure But rest assured I am always skeptical when viewing silver ancients I have seen too many fakes that would have fooled me if not for someone pointing it out ! The coin may well be genuine Personally I would want someone with more experience than myself telling me ! The old adage applies Free advice is usually worth what you pay ! Report this Post to the Staff
TobyJ Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1273 Posts	Posted 04/02/2021 12:01 pm I got around to grading it finally. Choice Fine, scratches, as we mentioned :) Report this Post to the Staff
jskirwin Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 04/02/2021 10:08 pm You scored with that find. I like that Caesar much more than the elephant type. Caesar claimed familial descent from the goddess Venus, who is on the obverse, and this coin ties him to the Roman foundation myths of the time in a powerful way. It's 100% propaganda - and the coin speaks to Caesar and his time much better than some others. Those are some of best photos I've seen here. Edited by jskirwin 04/02/2021 10:08 pm Report this Post to the Staff
TobyJ Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 1273 Posts	Posted 04/04/2021 12:44 pm That is interesting! It's amazing to have a 2000 year old coin and a Julius Caesar one at that. I'm really into my macro photography so I spend time getting the best photos I can, thank you for the compliment. Report this Post to the Staff
travelcoin Pillar of the Community United States 1120 Posts	Posted 04/05/2021 7:37 pm Great find and thanks for the follow up. These are faked a lot so when you are looking to resell it, the certification will pay off. I have a sorry example of one, but I also bought it in a large lot. Report this Post to the Staff
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