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New Pickup 1857 PF-63 Half Cent Is It Breen-1? Previously Graded MS-64 By NGC

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 Posted 08/06/2020  8:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Claimed to be a rare B-1 variety. Can I send back to PCGS for designation? Just bought from the Stacks Bowers Auction.




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 Posted 08/06/2020  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim - Who claims this? Is it SBG?
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 Posted 08/06/2020  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the Stacks Bowers Description:

1857 Braided Hair Half Cent. B-1, C-1. Rarity-7+ as a Proof. Proof-63 BN ( PCGS).

An attractive and elusive rarity with dominate sea-green hues and blooms of crimson color surrounding the devices. The complexion is largely brilliant, with glossed and bold devices set against semi-reflective fields. Smooth and free of notable abrasions beneath a glass, a Mint-made lint-mark at Liberty's nose serves as a convenient pedigree marker. While commonly offered in circulation-strike format, Proofs from the Breen-1 dies are incredibly rare, with just 5-7 known. Most Proofs from this issue were struck by the Breen-2 dies, which features prominent doubling on the T of CENT and the ribbon below. We have not handled a Proof from these dies in recent memory, emphasizing the significance of this offering for advanced specialist in the Half Cent series.
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 Posted 08/08/2020  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No one offering an opinion on this? Unusual for this forum.
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 Posted 08/09/2020  06:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to help, but I'm dazzled by the dominate sea-green hues and blooms of crimson color surrounding the devices.
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 Posted 08/09/2020  08:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm always amazed at how anyone knows what is what from that far back. What dies were used in 1857? I sometimes wonder if anyone really knows what dies were used yesterday for any coins.
just carl
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 Posted 08/09/2020  10:02 am  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know anything about these, but did a little research. Couldn't find anything in my Breen's Encyclopedia. looked on Heritage, and saw a few of the recut ENT less rare varieties. Your ENT does not look recut, so you might have the rare one indeed. One heck of a nice coin. Great price too.
Edited by edweather
08/09/2020 10:23 am
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 Posted 08/11/2020  03:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dies appear correct, but I'm not sure it is a proof. (all the business strikes were struck from these dies as well.)
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 08/14/2020  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're welcome.
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 Posted 08/14/2020  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that's it's established it is a breen-1 no one answered if it was worth sending back to PCGS for the designation. Since the Id is easy and obvious once you reference breens book probably no reason to have it attributed, plus reference is also established from the stacks description which becomes its provenance. No previous sale of this particular example has been found by me.
Edited by jimbucks
08/14/2020 6:22 pm
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 Posted 08/14/2020  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
for a coin worth 3 grand, I would definitely look into getting it attributed by PCGS. That's an easy call in my book.
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 Posted 08/14/2020  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add machine20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
really nice coin, good eye
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 Posted 08/19/2020  02:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just came across this EXACT coin auctioned at Heritage in 2006 in an NGC MS-64 BN holder. Not PF but MS. That is a huge value difference. Either NGC or PCGS got it wrong. What should I do?
Edited by jimbucks
08/19/2020 02:52 am
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 Posted 08/19/2020  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I might consider contacting a dealer that specializes in copper. Maybe more than one dealer. They might also have a contact for you that can give this a good lookover. In my view, if the coin has all the characteristics of a Proof, especially sharp edges, then it's probably a Proof. Of course, an expert might be able to say definitively (as attempted in the above descriptions) based on what the known Proof dies were. If this coin was struck with dies only used to strike Business strikes, then it's a Business strike.
Specializing in 2-3-20 cent pieces and 19th Century Proofs
Did someone mention 3CN?
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 Posted 08/19/2020  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dies themselves do not resolve the matter. Per Breen, there were 2 dies and both were used to strike business and proof issues. Does the auction house have any responsibility in disclosing the coin was previously in a MS holder?
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 Posted 08/19/2020  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What should I do?

You should consider that perhaps the TPG's are completely arbitrary with there designations.
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