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Post Your Contemporary Counterfeit Coppers!

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Valued Member
Canada
67 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2020  03:52 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Non-regal halfpennies, farthings, and evasion issues. Let's see them all! An interesting and complicated bunch that is getting more attention in recent times.

To get the ball rolling, here is a 1733 dated George II farthing. Weighs 2.9 grams.

Listed as Anton-Kesse 98 (Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies)

Reverse die break, clashed dies, and a small clip.
Edited by blargish
08/20/2020 03:58 am
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
510 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2020  04:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hogarth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Valued Member
United Kingdom
470 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2020  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK - I can do a few of these:






Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2020  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Okay, I can do that.

But be advised, blargish, that one of these is a ringer -- which is to say, a genuine regal issue.

I can never remember which one, of course, (upper right?) but I do remember swapping an evasion for these with Mike Ringo, who was a world-class expert on Machin's Mills, and on all manner of non-regal and colonial coppers, counterfeit and otherwise. (RIP, Mike!) I vaguely recall learning then that the shape of Britannia's left arm and of the "7" in the date are key diagnostics, but I can see now that the artistic quality evident in George's cuirass and in the base to Britannia's shield may be equally telling. But seriously, I know nothing.

Meanwhile, I just checked, and the only evasion piece I still have, aside from those two Bitits, is a 1761-dated Charles Fox item. Can scan later, I guess, if you'd like to see it added onto this thread.

Enjoy!
Tom


"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
Valued Member
Canada
67 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2020  02:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hogarth, PaddyB, those are some stunning examples! I especially like the somewhat cruder 1771-dated piece; George has quite the forehead on that one.

Tom, I'd guess your upper left example to be the regal issue, based on the style of the bust (and as you mention, the cuirass.) I've come across Mike Ringo in my readings, and have spent a bit of time browsing his 2008 Stacks Bowers collection sale of contemporary counterfeits. Some great information is in there!

By and large I am a complete beginner with regard to contemporary counterfeits. I notice a relatively new book, "Contemporary Counterfeit Halfpenny and Farthing Families", is out and I hope to get my hands on it soon. Would love to see that evasion, as that series interests me with its indirect Canadian connection via the BITIT (BRITI) token.

Cheers to all!
Valued Member
United Kingdom
470 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2020  03:32 am  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK - I have dug out a few more. These are older photos and the coins have moved on long ago:






(The last was from the days I used a scanner, so apologies for the awful pictures!)
Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2020  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PaddyB, that last one is a hoot! Had to look it up for the "correct" spelling..."correct" is in sardonic quotes, of course, because misspelling was the whole point, right?
The obverse legend reads:
TVRCVPELLERIUS

Reverse:
HISPANNIOLA

Obviously meant to be accepted in change as some sort of Spanish equivalent to halfpenny copper weight.

There must have been quite a profit margin in these for people to go to all the die-cutting and production expense on top of somehow reclaiming and/or refining all the copper.

I went looking to see if that "Latin" would translate, and my first Google hit was the British Museum, They have a much more photogenic example in the holdings, so now we can see what it was supposed to look like:


Meanwhile, according to Wikipedia, but with my elisions for brevity: "During the period of the Crusades, turcopoles...were locally recruited mounted archers and light cavalry employed by the Byzantine Empire and the Crusader states. A leader of these auxiliaries was designated as Turcopolier, a title subsequently given to a senior officer in the Knights Templars and the Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem, in charge of the coastal defences of Rhodes and Malta."

Further Googling turns up an 1885 auction (5th installment, apparently) of some of Lyman Low's extensive collection, in which this very token appears as Lot 499, described thusly:

1814. Halfpenny Token during English possession.
Bearded bust, turcupellerius. Pallas seated; hispanniola. Good. Fon. 7621. It is improbable that this piece was struck for, or circulated in, San Domingo. The first name the island received was Espanola, Latin, Hispaniola. For this reason alone, I conclude the attribution has found favor.


Any gibberish you see there is a result of some else's OCR software at work in scanning the original catalog, so no apologies from me. The catalog is probably available in PDF form at the Newman Numismatic Portal, anyway, so go for it!

(My footnote: Hispaniola is the island now shared between Haiti and the Dominican Republic, while San Domingo would have been an analogue for what is now the capital of the Dominican Republic. Lots of English vs. Spanish naval action down there back around 1806!)

Okay, way more info than anyone was looking for, but I'm sure very few of us have ever seen one before, so thank you PaddyB for sharing it!

Wash your hands, everybody!
Tom
"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
Valued Member
United Kingdom
470 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2020  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to add to all the excellent information from Daltonista, the Turcopellerius is listed in the Withers list of Evasion halfpennies as number 444 and is the only one anything similar by way of design.
The 1760 George Rules - North Wales above is also listed as number 173.

The list is in "The Token Book, 17th, 18th & 19th Century tokens and their Values" by Paul and Bente R Withers printed by Galata in 2010 and is one of the few recent lists of evasions I have come across.
Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2020  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Charles James Fox is now scanned...his visage captured for posterity!



Actually, he was quite the controversial political figure back then, very much in favor of letting the North American Colonies go their own way without a fight. Lots more background available at Wikipedia; britannica.com; and gov.uk, where we are informed that "Fox was a gambling addict, womaniser, debtor, and dandy who was forgiven his failings by many because of his defence of civil liberty and his overwhelming charisma. He was Britain's first Foreign Secretary."

Here's a better-looking contemporary portrait:


The token is designated A32 in the Galata Token Book. Anyone seeking the source of those numbers need only click on this link for the original and complete Atkins book (cf. pp. 385-395 for the "Evasions"): Atkins, James. The Tradesmen's Tokens of the Eighteenth Century
"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
Edited by daltonista
08/21/2020 6:52 pm
Valued Member
Canada
67 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2020  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That was a great read Tom! Love learning about the backstories to some of these evasion issues. The "tvrcvpellerivs" copper is especially interesting.

PaddyB, the middle example in the group of three that you posted stands out to me with its crude design and lack of legends; it has similarities with some of the Canadian Blacksmith issues. An interesting date of 1777 as well!
Valued Member
United Kingdom
470 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2020  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Daltonista, I was hopeful when you posted the link to the Atkins book, but sadly it tells me that it is not available online because of copyright issues...
Maybe only in the US?
Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2020  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Could be, PaddyB, as it still works fine for me. When it opens, this sidebar appears, offering some more download and/or viewing methods:


Note that it does indeed indicate "Public Domain in the United States."

I found this book through the Newman Numismatic Portal, but if you try a Google search on the author/title you could perhaps find there's a UK equivalent to our open libraries, Internet Archive, "World Cat," etc.?

I have to tell you, though, that as far as the evasions are concerned, the Galata book seems to be a straight reproduction of Atkins....just a different typeface.

Sample pasted in below:

The rest of it just looks like a rearrangement of D&H, but using Atkins' and Conder's numbering systems.

"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
Valued Member
United Kingdom
470 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2020  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Daltonista for that - it does seem that it is only available to the US in that web page. As you have pointed out that it does not have anything more than the Galata book, I will not bother searching further. (Counterfeits and evasions are a side line for me - I focus on the GB Regal issues more.)
Valued Member
Canada
67 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2020  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A recent evasion pickup of Irish design listed as Atkins 4, with a less than flattering bust of Alfred the Great.
Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2020  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not exactly a counterfeit, blargish, nor a copper, but Alfred would have been MUCH happier with this portrait!

(Dalton 1: Berkshire, Reading, 1812 40/-)
"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
Valued Member
Canada
468 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2020  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a big pile to post. Any ID's would be appreciated.
1773 farthing, lots of weirdness, including an inverted A for the V in GEORGIVS. 2.78 grams.




Edited by TerryT
09/02/2020 01:57 am
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