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1786 MO 8 Reales - Is This A Good Candidate For NCS Or Not?

 
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 Posted 09/01/2020  8:40 pm Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I took a chance and bid on this high grade 1786 Mo (Mexico City mint) 8 Reales silver coin. The seller said it was part of a hoard discovered buried in Sumatra. The seller's description said the coin has no corrosion but that it is toned a dark color due to being buried for over 200 years.

Would this coin be worth the cost of sending in for conservation work by Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)?

Would a coin that has been buried for so long, even with no corrosion, automatically receive a "Details" grade or might it have a chance at a straight grade?

I have no idea if there is a chance that any luster remains under the toning.

I know that second one is a hard question to answer but I thought I'd ask.

These are the seller's photos. I can post more when I receive it.

Thanks.



Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/01/2020  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Check Collects82's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen a couple 1782s pop up over the last little while as well. There is a cynic in me that doubts the story and the legitimacy of the coins. The toning and wear all kind of looked the same to me, which was a red flag.
My hoard of '82s is up to 199! 218 BC x 1, 118 BC x 3, 18 BC x 1, 82 x 1, 182 x 1, 282 x 2, 582 x 2, 682 x 1, 782 x 2, 882 x 1, 982 x 4, 1082 x 1 1182 x 8, 1282 x 2, 1382 x 1, 1482 x 5, 1582 x 13, 1682 x 14, 1782 x 55, 1882 x 49, 1982 x 32
Edited by Collects82
09/01/2020 8:47 pm
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 Posted 09/01/2020  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The seller has 3700+ 100% positive feedback and offers a 60 day return, so I thought I'd take a chance and examine the coin to see what it looks like.
Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/01/2020  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is something in the loop of the D in Dei and something in front of his lips and nose. They kinda look like bubbles, can you get a closeup?
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 Posted 09/01/2020  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are enlargements of the seller's photos.

To me they look like spots on the surfaces such as dirt or an encrustation and not casting bubbles, but I can't be sure.

The seller shows the weight as 26.98 grams, very close to the official weight of 27.07 grams.


Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/02/2020  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pistareen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the key things I look for is the orientation of the denticles at the rim. They all should be aligned radially on genuine coins. If they are misaligned with the orientation of the nearest letter uprights in the legends, then I might pass on the purchase. Some counterfeits have denticles running askew. How do they look in person on this coin? The orientation of the images makes it difficult to fully assess.
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 Posted 09/02/2020  09:00 am  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wrote the seller asking about this coin and the others in the hoard he mentioned in the listing. He gave me a very thorough account of the discovery of a small hoard of 8 reales and his purchase of some of the coins from a dealer in Indonesia, which sounds authentic to me.

I will post more photos when I receive the coin.
Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/02/2020  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Continuing my investigations, while waiting for the coin to arrive, I checked the seller's selling history. He specializes in older coins (17th-19th centuries)and has sold a good number of 8 reales in the past with positive feedback. That makes me feel more optimistic this coin is authentic.
Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/02/2020  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Check Collects82's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do let us know how it checks out! Its certainly a cool story!
My hoard of '82s is up to 199! 218 BC x 1, 118 BC x 3, 18 BC x 1, 82 x 1, 182 x 1, 282 x 2, 582 x 2, 682 x 1, 782 x 2, 882 x 1, 982 x 4, 1082 x 1 1182 x 8, 1282 x 2, 1382 x 1, 1482 x 5, 1582 x 13, 1682 x 14, 1782 x 55, 1882 x 49, 1982 x 32
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 Posted 09/03/2020  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin shows light surface corrosion on most of the coin. Conserved or not it will be a details coin. They MAY be able to lighten the color, but what it will look like afterward is impossible to say.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 09/03/2020  11:49 am  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It will be interesting to see what the coins looks like in hand.

The seller has twice said it has no surface corrosion but is just darkly toned. We will see.

He does offer a 60 day return so I can send it back if it turns out to be corroded.
Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/15/2020  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have received the coin. Here are my photos taken in sunlight.





Under magnification, the rough spots appear to be the black patina/encrustations/dirt over the coin's surfaces. I put it in acetone for a couple of minutes and it came out looking like this with no scrubbing, just a simple acetone soak.




While my stupid side says, "Just put it in lemon juice!" I won't listen to that part of my brain. I'll leave it as is, study it some more and then decide if I want to send it to NCS. I don't think the coin is corroded and that the mottled areas are the black patina, from being buried for 230 years, over the silver surfaces. The reverse surfaces look to be in good shape.

I also purchased this 1779 8 Reales from the Lima, Peru mint which was part of the same hoard. This coin looks to be in very nice shape under the black patina/encrustations/dirt. It might well receive a "details" slab, but it certainly looks nice.



Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 09/17/2020  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I still think the original coins is lightly corroded. So is the 1779 Lima piece.
Gary Schmidt
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